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Rafa the Pro's and Con's

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Dreambeliever

Dreambeliever

Will he believe again?
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So with things are they are at the moment on the pitch we are seeing alot of people starting to call for Rafa's head.

If we win well on the weekend I'm sure it will swing back a bit in his favour.

So how about a thread where we have all his pro's and con's to get a balanced view.

I'l start with a couple of pro's as Im' sure the con's will come flying in.


Pro: The youth set up is moving in the right direction and when Ged left us it was dead in the water. Even if Rafa leaves he will have left this part of the club in great shape.

Pro: Winning No5 which I still believe played the biggest part in attracting Torres.
 
Yes, I can definintely see this thread ending up "with a balanced view" that all and sundry agree upon, thus giving us a "level playing field" to judge Rafa from here on. I can't believe we haven't thought of doing things this way before.
 
[quote author=SummerOnions link=topic=37444.msg999133#msg999133 date=1259193887]
Behave Ryan, Dreamy has come this far, why stop him now?
[/quote]

It's just an extension of every other thread going.

'Let's discuss Rafa's pro's and con's' - Isn't that we we do every fucking day?
 
Worth a try no?

I'm not saying we will all agree but if we stick to pro's and con's maybe the insults can be left to the side for one thread at least.

Maybe even some of "you" more knowledgable posters can debate the finer points in clear and transparent manner.

Stranger things have happened.
 
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=37444.msg999136#msg999136 date=1259194004]

Maybe even some of "you" more knowledgable posters can debate the finer points in clear and transparent manner.

[/quote]

Again Dreamy, it's what we do every day. I see what you're attempting, but really you could pick most threads out of this Forum and read through the posts of respected posters from both sides of the Rafa argument.
 
Right. My positives:

He won us the Champions League and FA Cup.
He brought us to within a whisker of winning the Premiership last season
He loves the club and its history
He signed Reina, Torres, Alonso, Agger, Johnson and Mascherano
 
This "he wasted 7M on Dossena" business irritates the fucking shit out of me. It's the most one-sided, irrational bollocks ever. I've you're going to accuse him of that, are you prepared to wiegh up the other side of the scale too?

20M for Torres. how much is he worth now? didn't City offer 70 fucking million for him?
11.5M on Alonso, sold for three times that.
1.5m on N'gog, how much is he worth now?
6M on Agger. You'd get at least double that now.
How much was Insua? And on and on and fuckin on.
What profit did we make on Crouch, Bellamy, etc etc

I don't mind anyone criticising Rafa's purchases, but it's wholly unfair to only focus on one side of the debate.
 
[quote author=Sheik (Loki) Yerbouti link=topic=37444.msg999154#msg999154 date=1259195279]
I can't believe Ryan is moaning at Rafa4 for being critical of an aspect of Benitez.

*Chuckles*
[/quote]

Ha.
 
The seed has been planted Ryan. You should be encouraging it to fester, to let the bad thoughts mushroom in Rafa4's mind, not beat it back into the naughty box.
 
[quote author=Sheik (Loki) Yerbouti link=topic=37444.msg999156#msg999156 date=1259195435]
The seed has been planted Ryan. You should be encouraging it to fester, to let the bad thoughts mushroom in Rafa4's mind, not beat it back into the naughty box.
[/quote]

I imagine most of Rafa's head to be a mushroom anyway Sheik.

Sorry Rafa4.
 
Right

Pros:

Youth system is arguably better
first team is better
strong, young spine
the CL
over achieving last year.

Cons:
weak squad
diehard belief in certain players
refusal to listen to others
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37444.msg999159#msg999159 date=1259195566]
[quote author=Sheik (Loki) Yerbouti link=topic=37444.msg999156#msg999156 date=1259195435]
The seed has been planted Ryan. You should be encouraging it to fester, to let the bad thoughts mushroom in Rafa4's mind, not beat it back into the naughty box.
[/quote]

I imagine most of Rafa's head to be a mushroom anyway Sheik.

Sorry Rafa4.
[/quote]

Could you please put a "4" next to my name in future? People are easily confused on here, and some might think you're calling the real Rafa stupid.
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37444.msg999141#msg999141 date=1259194141]
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=37444.msg999136#msg999136 date=1259194004]

Maybe even some of "you" more knowledgable posters can debate the finer points in clear and transparent manner.

[/quote]

Again Dreamy, it's what we do every day. I see what you're attempting, but really you could pick most threads out of this Forum and read through the posts of respected posters from both sides of the Rafa argument.
[/quote]

True enough but my point was I didn't want to read 17 hundred threads to find it all out. Put it all in here and we can see it all.

Ah well nevermind.
 
So you want everyone to repeat themselves for your benefit?

Ha. I don't think I could ever hate you Dreamy.
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37444.msg999172#msg999172 date=1259197907]
So you want everyone to repeat themselves for your benefit?

Ha. I don't think I could ever hate you Dreamy.
[/quote]

Ha ha to much?

And everyone is already repeating themselves all over the board. Even Keni has said he's taking a few days off because of this.

I just thought this could be a good place to put the entire Rafa discussion in one place.
Kinda like your transfer rumours thread!
 
Pros-his ability to beat the best teams in the world on any given day.
His tactical ability and understanding of the game.
His signings of Torres, mascherano, alonso, agger, yossi, Johnson, reina etc.
His ability to get the very best out of gerrard.
His ability to wind up alex ferguson.
His youth set up.
His wins in Cardiff and Istanbul
His dry as fuck wit.
His love of the club and fans.
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=37444.msg999305#msg999305 date=1259223912]
Pros-his ability to beat the best teams in the world on any given day.
His tactical ability and understanding of the game.
His signings of Torres, mascherano, alonso, agger, yossi, Johnson, reina etc.
His ability to get the very best out of gerrard.
His ability to wind up alex ferguson.
His youth set up.
His wins in Cardiff and Istanbul
His dry as fuck wit.
His love of the club and fans.

[/quote]


*Applauds*
 
everyone knows I love rafa so there is clearly no aggenda on my part but why are people listing the youth set up as a pro?
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=37444.msg999311#msg999311 date=1259225698]
everyone knows I love rafa so there is clearly no aggenda on my part but why are people listing the youth set up as a pro?
[/quote]Perhaps because in the last two years it's been filled with the likes of ngog, insua, dallevalle, amoo, ecclestone, pacheco, butchman, bruna, ayala, Kelly etc Instead of ostembor, newby, partridge. Whitbread etc
 
Cons...

We keep getting beat by any half decent side.
The team look clueless.
His strange team selections / substitutions.
His signings of Voronin, Lucas, Babel, Dossena, etc.
His failure to sign a replacement CF or Winger.
Keeps loosing league campaigns.
His like of distance from the players which doesnt seem to suit everyone.
 
Pro: Letting me see Fowler score in Red one last time.
His attitude to fans (sitting on the pitch, playing football in the street, watching the Utd game in the bar)

Cons: Not researching his signings well enough. Keane, Dossena Babel 3 players worth 37 when bought. That is a big chunk of change to waste.
His lack of motivational skills against anyone bar the big boys where its not needed anyway.
His crazy idea of picking the weakest possible team he thinks that can still beat a team on any given day. Hence we get overturned often
by shit teams.
 
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