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Post Match Bournemouth

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Insignificance

Insignificance

Bad to the bone
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That Draw was so cruel. A real kick in the teeth. Spurs turning their match and we loosing two comfortable points. Hopefully they will not be crucial but we need to learn from it anyway.

Besides the two fuck ups from players I thought we did well. Normal shit against these weaker teams would be no pace, no passion and not winning the ball back. This time around we dictated the game better, created chances and put huge pressure on them (Real pressure, not only rolling the ball around). We tried to break them down on both flanks, and the runs in the middle was encouraging. I never got that "not again" feeling after their goal. Rather the opposite. Strange is that I never got a bad feeling until we went ahead.

Keep the Firmino doesnt score enough slagging in here...!
 
Not much to say then we should be winning that game. Feels like shite to concede in the 87th minute.
Now we need to win away to Stoke. Not impossible, but it will be tough.
 
Tough tough loss to take.
I know, it's a draw, but it feels like a loss ... and I sincerely hope we don't look back on this as the game that cost us 3rd/4th whatever.

Origi impressed ...
 
LeTallecWiz said:
Tough tough loss to take.
I know, it's a draw, but it feels like a loss ... and I sincerely hope we don't look back on this as the game that cost us 3rd/4th whatever.

Origi impressed ...
Click to expand...

It could end up that way. I've somewhat given up on 3rd/4th after Mane's injury. If we manage to get top 4 now it will be a bonus.

The only positive, if there is any, is that in the last week we've gained 3 points on City and 2 on Utd while its status quo vs Arsenal.
Our position isnt bad but it could have been so much better with those 2 points extra. Now we have to win against Stoke.
 
What seems to tie Klopp and Rodgers together is that their 'normal' tactical set up seems to leave people far more exposed to making stupid individual errors. Either that or we've been incredibly proficient in signing stupid players. I haven't bothered looking this up, and given I watch infinitely more of our games than any other team, I may be skewing the facts a touch, but we seem to make more individual errors than most teams.

I know we probably need upgrades on most positions, but even if we take a negative view on our squad and say that, at best, they're a top-10 squad, we still seem to make more of these types of mistakes than the rest of that group. So what's the problem? The pressure of playing for Liverpool? The tactics leaving people exposed? Stupid players? All of the above? I suspect it's the tactics, but maybe I'm not seeing something obvious.
 
Probably all of the above, but we do seem to make some very stupid mistakes. Why some of our players cant seem clear the ball out of defense to save their lives in some situations isnt down to tactics.
 
6 goals conceded to Bournemouth is fucking shocking no matter how you look at it mind.
 
wijnaldum should never have received the ball for the opening goal , a kid playing 11s on a Sunday would be told not play a ball across the box to a team mate facing goal , for some reason we allow tactics to supercede basics. Yeah,the back pass was poor but why even give someone the chance to make a mistake , don't even allow that to become a possibility By clearing your lines , were clearly proficient at the high press when we want to be, why not let the forwards chase down the clearance and turn it over , anything but stupid pass followed by stupid pass.

I'd seriously outsource the defensive piece as its a shambles , zonal marking, the communication , the goalkeepers' decision making , its all wrong.

I don't understand how you can have three men in midfield and not have one of them explicitly sitting in front of the Back four.

Lucas sat on lukaku expertly at the weekend , last night we Just need a ball winner to shield the back four.

I don't think we have a player fit or not who can play that role properly but anyone is better than nothing. Heck, Matip could have done last night instead of dropping deep with klaven and lovren....
 
I think it feels like a loss because what Spurs did, not withstanding the different kick-off times, it was a 5 point swing from the 87th minute onwards, which is hard to take.

To @HC point, I do agree and think we need to change 3 of our starting back 5 in the summer, New GK, new CB and new LB. I'd even consider shaking up the coaching set up. Also why not use Trent AA as a makeshift DM, he's played there in the youth team. Or Grujic who's also played there before.

Klopp seems intent on putting square pegs in round holes at times.
 
At least Klopp took full responsibility and said he'll address it and fix it. Several other managers would have blamed everyone else.
 
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The Nomad said:
I think it feels like a loss because what Spurs did, not withstanding the different kick-off times, it was a 5 point swing from the 87th minute onwards, which is hard to take.

To @HC point, I do agree and think we need to change 3 of our starting back 5 in the summer, New GK, new CB and new LB. I'd even consider shaking up the coaching set up. Also why not use Trent AA as a makeshift DM, he's played there in the youth team. Or Grujic who's also played there before.

Klopp seems intent on putting square pegs in round holes at times.
Click to expand...

Just out of curiosity, what would you change there? We have already shaken the coaching set up by bringing in Klopps team.
 
The Spurs game is pretty much irrelevant as we were never going to finish 2nd. In the cold light of day the table looks much like it did before the international break so it's not all doom and destruction but it definitely feels like we have thrown away a winning position. We still have a wafer thin lead and an easier run in than our rivals, but this match pretty much confirmed we will be relying on them to cannibalize each other just to cover up our own short comings. If any one of us, Arsenal or Utd can put together a 4 game winning run they will finish top 4.
 
I really don't know what made Klopp think we should play defensively for the last 25 minutes when we have shown no consistent ability to defend since he's been here and even before that with Rodgers. He gambled it would be okay and it backfired badly. Not using the two remaining subs when some of the players were clearly tiring/not playing well was baffling to say the least.
 
Insignificance said:
Just out of curiosity, what would you change there? We have already shaken the coaching set up by bringing in Klopps team.
Click to expand...
really now?

you don't see glaring deficiencies in how we defend in open play , let alone set pieces ?

I don't subscribe to that many players actually being shit or unintelligent enough to adapt,as that's just not likely. The system we play is clearly flawed. We have no idea how to play compact and see out games , despite klopp thinking so last night , we haven't got that man in the middle who can keep It simple and safe when On the ball and Own between the box ans half way line when were out of position , hendo does a fairly good job of it at times , Im not particularly a fan of his but the can,Lucas,wijnaldum trio is rage-inducing

we don't need a sweeper-ball playing goalkeeper we just need a safe pair of gloves that doesn't commit a brain fart every 60 minutes of football.

we don't need an Alan hansen at CB, just a half intelligent , half quick leader who can organise and not allow chasms to form between him and his partnering cb.

lastly we need a lb who isn't shagged after 30 minutes , I really don't see how bad moreno at lb and miller in the middle could be against less expansive sides..
 
Arsenal have a very tough run of fixtures in their last 9 games with Leicester, Spurs, Utd, Everton, and the FA cup.
Utd play City, Chelsea, Arsenal and Spurs in their last 9 games and are still in the Europa League.

We will definitely fuck up during the next 7 games but our hope is that the two others will do so aswell.
 
davud graham said:
I really don't know what made Klopp think we should play defensively for the last 25 minutes when we have shown no consistent ability to defend since he's been here and even before that with Rodgers. He gambled it would be okay and it backfired badly. Not using the two remaining subs when some of the players were clearly tiring/not playing well was baffling to say the least.
Click to expand...
I kindly disagree with that. Not that I think we did well at all those last 25 minutes but isn't it a fact we've been far better when we've played teams wanting to play/attack than those parking the bus? I mean by that logic it would make some sense at least to invite them on and hit them hard on the counter. (Perhaps the fact we were without Mane, Coutinho and Lallana however should've made that strategy less interesting as we then lacked the pace and creativity).

I am not saying he's without blame (for me it begins with the team selection really) but I can understand why he perhaps would've thought that was a clever idea, to stand back a bit. I clearly didn't work out though.
 
HC said:
really now?

you don't see glaring deficiencies in how we defend in open play , let alone set pieces ?

I don't subscribe to that many players actually being shit or unintelligent enough to adapt,as that's just not likely. The system we play is clearly flawed. We have no idea how to play compact and see out games , despite klopp thinking so last night , we haven't got that man in the middle who can keep It simple and safe when On the ball and Own between the box ans half way line when were out of position , hendo does a fairly good job of it at times , Im not particularly a fan of his but the can,Lucas,wijnaldum trio is rage-inducing

we don't need a sweeper-ball playing goalkeeper we just need a safe pair of gloves that doesn't commit a brain fart every 60 minutes of football.

we don't need an Alan hansen at CB, just a half intelligent , half quick leader who can organise and not allow chasms to form between him and his partnering cb.

lastly we need a lb who isn't shagged after 30 minutes , I really don't see how bad moreno at lb and miller in the middle could be against less expansive sides..
Click to expand...

But this is just sulking for two lost points from yesterday. We can't "shake" up the coaching set up on that alone, and pointing out obvious weaknesses in the Squad. Shaking up the coaching set up is totally different. Maybe I just interpreted you wrong?

My question was real, and I am curious on how you would shake up the coaching set up. As in a real discussion. Should Klopp shake it up himself, or should he be given instruction on how to shake it up. How would all this affect the progress we are in?

PS: changing Achtenberg is ok, but not really shaking up the coaching set up!
 
Kay Age El said:
I kindly disagree with that. Not that I think we did well at all those last 25 minutes but isn't it a fact we've been far better when we've played teams wanting to play/attack than those parking the bus? I mean by that logic it would make some sense at least to invite them on and hit them hard on the counter. (Perhaps the fact we were without Mane, Coutinho and Lallana however should've made that strategy less interesting as we then lacked the pace and creativity).

I am not saying he's without blame (for me it begins with the team selection really) but I can understand why he perhaps would've thought that was a clever idea, to stand back a bit. I clearly didn't work out though.
Click to expand...
I agree that we are better when teams come out to play rather than sit deep against us but that's when we have attacking intent ourselves not when we have sat deep as we did last night.
Bournemouth were able to push right up in the last half hour as we had no threat going forward at that point. Firmino looked very tired and was pushed off the ball far too easily in the second half plus he hasn't got a lot of pace to begin with. Coutinho had left the pitch and Origi couldn't hold the ball up and make the run in behind all by himself so we conceded possession far too often and couldn't clear our lines effectively. A lack of pace on the counter attack and a shortage of willing runners meant the ball was coming back at us all too quickly.
Fresh legs might well have helped.
 
HC said:
really now?

you don't see glaring deficiencies in how we defend in open play , let alone set pieces ?

I don't subscribe to that many players actually being shit or unintelligent enough to adapt,as that's just not likely. The system we play is clearly flawed. We have no idea how to play compact and see out games , despite klopp thinking so last night , we haven't got that man in the middle who can keep It simple and safe when On the ball and Own between the box ans half way line when were out of position , hendo does a fairly good job of it at times , Im not particularly a fan of his but the can,Lucas,wijnaldum trio is rage-inducing

we don't need a sweeper-ball playing goalkeeper we just need a safe pair of gloves that doesn't commit a brain fart every 60 minutes of football.

we don't need an Alan hansen at CB, just a half intelligent , half quick leader who can organise and not allow chasms to form between him and his partnering cb.

lastly we need a lb who isn't shagged after 30 minutes , I really don't see how bad moreno at lb and miller in the middle could be against less expansive sides..
Click to expand...

Agreed with all of that, except the suggestion of AWOL at left back, why not put Gomez there again instead?
 
HC said:
wijnaldum should never have received the ball for the opening goal , a kid playing 11s on a Sunday would be told not play a ball across the box to a team mate facing goal , for some reason we allow tactics to supercede basics. Yeah,the back pass was poor but why even give someone the chance to make a mistake , don't even allow that to become a possibility By clearing your lines , were clearly proficient at the high press when we want to be, why not let the forwards chase down the clearance and turn it over , anything but stupid pass followed by stupid pass.

I'd seriously outsource the defensive piece as its a shambles , zonal marking, the communication , the goalkeepers' decision making , its all wrong.

I don't understand how you can have three men in midfield and not have one of them explicitly sitting in front of the Back four.

Lucas sat on lukaku expertly at the weekend , last night we Just need a ball winner to shield the back four.

I don't think we have a player fit or not who can play that role properly but anyone is better than nothing. Heck, Matip could have done last night instead of dropping deep with klaven and lovren....
Click to expand...

I think you're being very kind to Wijnaldum. He wasn't facing goal when he received the ball, he shit himself and turned that way. He also had the opportunity to clear himself but didn't take it.

However I enjoyed his performance after that, it felt like he had some making up to do and he really went at it. It'd be nice to see him like that by default, he's normally quietly effective but never stands out and imposes his skillful game on the opposition.
 
I also don't understand how Grujic didn't come on last 20.

Granted he's still something of an unknown quantity, but he's impressed in his cameos and pre-season. He's a big physical unit who is fresh as a daisy having not played all season. Surely getting him on to shield the defence and have the legs to spring out on the counter would have made sense?
 
Hansern said:
We will definitely fuck up during the next 7 games but our hope is that the two others will do so aswell.
Click to expand...

I take umbrage with the fact that our "hope" is that Arsenal and United fuck up. I mean I understand the sentiment, since we are infuriatingly inconsistent and obviously incapable of getting across the finish line in our own way. But really - our finishing position should not have to rely on the misfortune of other teams, but on our own skill and ability to properly manage and see out close games. Our in-game intelligence and management is risible.
 
Dirty Sanchez said:
I take umbrage with the fact that our "hope" is that Arsenal and United fuck up. I mean I understand the sentiment, since we are infuriatingly inconsistent and obviously incapable of getting across the finish line in our own way. But really - our finishing position should not have to rely on the misfortune of other teams, but on our own skill and ability to properly manage and see out close games. Our in-game intelligence and management is risible.
Click to expand...

It was more to do with our current injury situatuon, and that not being able to start our best players will effect us.
 
Hansern said:
It was more to do with our current injury situatuon, and that not being able to start our best players will effect us.
Click to expand...
We were winning that game with 3 minutes to go. At that very moment, we had enjoyed nearly 70% possession and Bournemouth had only had one shot on target.
This is nothing to do with starting our best players. We should have comfortably won if we were more intelligent with the way we managed the game.
 
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