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Players that define a manager's tenure

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keniget

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I got thinking about this the other day when reading one of the Sterling threads and wondered whether you could find one player that would define a manager's stay at a particular club.

At Liverpool it's been all too easy recently - Gerrard was such a force of nature that he would have to be a defining player even if the manager didn't want him to be. Take Rafa, for example, if you were to pick a player that defined his philosophy and how he wanted the game to be played, it'd be Xabi Alonso, but still Gerrard dominated his tenure - the big moments, the finals, the where should he play discussions and so forth.

Gerrard has largely faded into the background (relatively speaking) over the last few seasons and so for Rodgers it is definitely someone else. It's tempting to pick Suarez for all the obvious reasons but I feel like he was his own man more than Rodgers and left prematurely. I'm more inclined to go for Sterling for a number of reasons:

1) He bridges the gap between the game Rodgers came to Liverpool supposedly wanting to play (possession based) and the game he's had the most success with (attacking with pace.

2) Rodgers has demonstrated through his team selections that he will not do without him and has placed his trust in him to play in multiple teams.

3) Perhaps most importantly, I think for the past couple seasons (even with Suarez and Sturridge firing on all cylinders) he's papered over the failings in the transfer market massively.

4) His potential departure will say more about us I think than Suarez's.

What do you guys think? Who would it be for other managers?
 
I know what you mean about Alonso being Rafa's player as he helped control the opposition wonderfully, but for me it will always be Dirk who summed up Rafa's tenure; tactically astute, worked his left bollock off, was versatile enough to play anyone one of Rafa's bonkers roles, questioned nothing, guaranteed starter and able to score in the big games when the team were offering up fuck all.

I think Rodgers is less clear because we've seen different strategies and approach in every one of his three seasons.

Houllier's would be Owen as he allowed him to play two defensive banks of four and then hit the long ball at pace.

Wenger and Henry will always be synonymous.
 
First of all Rodgers appeared to say that Lucas embodied his philosophy. Then he bought Allen, who definitely was thought to embody his philosophy. Then neither had a regular role. So I guess he's been more pragmatic than we thought. I don't think Sterling embodies that philosophy to any profound extent. He's versatile enough to fill in somewhere regardless of the formation, but that's not really enough to make him THE Rodgers player.
 
Rafa and his bizarre infatuation with Igor Biscan, culminating in him inexplicably playing him at centre back in favour of Henchoz for a while.
 
Strange you make that comparison considering Rafa booted Alonso out.
Rodgers > Allen
Hodge > Konchesky
Rafa > Garcia
Ged > Owen
Evans > Folwer
Wenger > Henry
Jose > Lampard
 
For Rodgers it'd have to be Allen or Lallana.

Rafa would be Kuyt as Squiggles said.

Houllier I'd perhaps go for Danny Murphy.
 
Rafa and his bizarre infatuation with Igor Biscan, culminating in him inexplicably playing him at centre back in favour of Henchoz for a while.



That was Houllier


[article]LIVERPOOL boss Gerard Houllier has revealed he talked Igor Biscan out of a move away from Anfield.
Biscan has impressed in the last two games as a centre half in the absence of Stephane Henchoz and Houllier feels the Croatian is beginning to finally establish himself in the side.
Biscan was keen to leave Liverpool after finding himself as something of a bit-part player at Anfield in recent seasons, but Houllier has converted the midfielder into a defender and he has won more first team opportunities.
"You know, Igor wanted to leave, and I could understand that," said Houllier. "But I kept him because I have always believed he had great potential which could benefit the team. I am very pleased for him that things went so well against Everton.
"When we had some difficult moments, he was there for us, notably with that amazing tackle on (Tomasz) Radzinski in the first half.
"He has had a lack of opportunities in the team but I really liked the reaction of the other players towards Igor at the end of the game."
Meanwhile, Houllier has played down fears that Michael Owen may leave Liverpool and is confident he will sign a new deal at Anfield.
Reports on Tuesday suggested that Owen could consider his future at Anfield as he was in no rush to open talks about extending his contract.
Houllier is not worried and remains confident that his star striker will stay at the club.
"Well, it's not the way I interpret things. I am sure we are going to reach an agreement," added Houllier. "I mean, this sort of thing was written two or three years ago. I know my players."[/article]
 
I associate Houllier with lots of players, Murphy, Babel, Owen, Heskey, but mostly associate him with actually winning trophies.
 
First of all Rodgers appeared to say that Lucas embodied his philosophy. Then he bought Allen, who definitely was thought to embody his philosophy. Then neither had a regular role. So I guess he's been more pragmatic than we thought. I don't think Sterling embodies that philosophy to any profound extent. He's versatile enough to fill in somewhere regardless of the formation, but that's not really enough to make him THE Rodgers player.


It wasn't my intention to highlight Sterling as someone who embodies Rodgers philosophy but rather as someone that has ended up bridging the gap between the early idealism of Rodgers and the pragmatism that's prevailed. Sterling has the technique and awareness to dovetail with the likes of Coutinho playing intricate stuff around the box but he played a big part on the more direct approach that brought us so much success last season.

It's as I was saying with Rafa, Alonso (or Kuyt) might be the model player for him, but Gerrard undoubtedly defined his time with us in my view.
 
I think for Wenger there are two distinct phases of his tenure. Henry represents his first phase and I would say Fabregas his second phase.

I think you are missing a stage, as I think Viera would more accurately describe Wengers first phase. When Wenger first arrived he made the team incredibly hard to beat with a tough midfield and his (inherited) defence. Most of his success was made on counter attacking football, with Viera and Petite breaking down teams and then releasing Anelka.

I'll never understand why he phased out tough tackling midfielders to replace them with a succession of midfielders that give up against physical teams. I suppose Flamini was the exception to that, at least in his first stint at the club.
 
I've been watching Suarez since he was at Groningen and I doubt that. He was world class when we got him from Ajax.


His movement improved, his decision-making improved, his shooting certainly improved. I'm no fan of Rodgers but I'm not going to deny he's done anything positive at all. I don't recall people watching him last season saying, 'Meh, he's just carrying on as before'. It's just gratuitously mean to suggest it was all just a simple evolution. Not even Suarez believes that, so I think you lot can afford to be just a tiny bit less cynical.
 
His movement improved, his decision-making improved, his shooting certainly improved. I'm no fan of Rodgers but I'm not going to deny he's done anything positive at all. I don't recall people watching him last season saying, 'Meh, he's just carrying on as before'. It's just gratuitously mean to suggest it was all just a simple evolution. Not even Suarez believes that, so I think you lot can afford to be just a tiny bit less cynical.
He had all that at Ajax. He didn't have it when he first arrived at us and then he did. This is probably due to him getting used to team, league, etc. He also improved because players do develop. There is definitely room for doubt.
 
Relativists need not read on, but Rodgers helped Suarez as Suarez helped Rodgers. And as for the next time some troll tries to claim I only criticise certain figures, bookmark this and many other pages and stick them up your arses.
 
I reckon Marco Van Basten probably helped Suarez improve in his attacking skills more than Brendan.
 
Okay, you tell him that. I can cite Suarez's own statement as to his belief in his improvement but you'll only say 'he doesn't mean it'. No point in continuing with this.
 
I might not say that. I haven't seen any definitive statements from Luis. He seemed to enjoy training under Brendan and thought his system suited him better. It's pretty similar to his Ajax role after all. Not really anything about improving him though.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...hance-under-Brendan-Rodgers-at-Liverpool.html

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/oct/27/luis-suarez-brendan-rodgers-liverpool

Rodgers definitely gives credit to Suarez for improving him as a manager with the hassle he had to deal with.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/nov/20/luis-suarez-brendan-rodgers-liverpool
 
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