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Overall thoughts?

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Paddy

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After the first game? Apart from Reina's mistake which was unfortunate, I thought we played very well. The main difference was how well the ball was kept. Apart from a few stray passes, that seemed to be what Roy has worked most on. Even in the final third we held on to it better. Also the defence is looking quite solid and more organised than last year.

What impressed you most?
 
well ryan's chalk board has gone and I can't be asked either but I will give props to roy as a coach, I am going to bet money at half time roy told the players a team as good as arsenal 'will' eventually wear you down with the passing and movement so get after them early, press them high up the pitch, nick a goal and then defend in numbers, keeping compact and organised to make it hard for arsenal to play through you or pull you out of position.

good tactic, so well done roy in that regard, a minute away from the plan being executed perfectly.
 
I thought we were pretty poor in the first half. We seemed to have a hangover from last season and were too afraid to have a go.

Second half we were hungrier and seemed to grow a pair of balls. Not quite enough to win it though. Arsenal were there for the taking which is annoying, they weren't sharp at all.

We can't afford to be dropping points at home to top 4 rivals.
 
If that had been rafa in charge people would have been fuming for failing to win, IMO it highlighted a few things most positively is that the team spirit is still very very good, sadly though we still lack enough quality and are predictable going forward.

I was pleased because we tried so hard which is the basic requirement any fan can ask for, as for how we played.... disjointed and fairly toothless.
 
[quote author=Whitey85 link=topic=41476.msg1155967#msg1155967 date=1282042533]
I thought we were pretty poor in the first half. We seemed to have a hangover from last season and were too afraid to have a go.

Second half we were hungrier and seemed to grow a pair of balls. Not quite enough to win it though. Arsenal were there for the taking which is annoying, they weren't sharp at all.

We can't afford to be dropping points at home to top 4 rivals.


[/quote]

From a testicularly challenged team to enough testicles to fill a pint glass in a 15min halftime break is a commendable achievement for the manager!
 
[quote author=cochyn link=topic=41476.msg1155981#msg1155981 date=1282044325]
[quote author=Whitey85 link=topic=41476.msg1155967#msg1155967 date=1282042533]
I thought we were pretty poor in the first half. We seemed to have a hangover from last season and were too afraid to have a go.

Second half we were hungrier and seemed to grow a pair of balls. Not quite enough to win it though. Arsenal were there for the taking which is annoying, they weren't sharp at all.

We can't afford to be dropping points at home to top 4 rivals.


[/quote]

From a testicularly challenged team to enough testicles to fill a pint glass in a 15min halftime break is a commendable achievement for the manager!
[/quote]

How many testicles on average can fit in a pint glass? Prefer tea bagging myself, rather than dipping my nuts in lager.
 
[quote author=Molbystwin link=topic=41476.msg1155971#msg1155971 date=1282043198]
and are predictable going forward.


[/quote]

the team spirt was the positive from the game and the above was the negative.
 
Our midfield and attack was poor in the first half, after being outplayed and out manoeuvred by Arsenal side intent on keeping possession and forcing us deeper and deeper into our half, leaving the defence to stay strong and keep us in the match. I'm not convinced it was our tactics to sit deep, rather we just took our time finding our feet, with players in different positions, two new players on the team, and, unlike Arsenal, we lacked a distinct style of play to impose upon the opposition. Our chances only came from sublime long through balls from Steven Gerrard, but unfortunately N'gog kept mistiming his runs. Masher, N'gog, Dirk, Cole all had a pretty mediocre first 45 minutes.

What was reassuring was how we came out for the second half. Last season only Wigan had a worse record of us than coming back from behind after a goal, indicating our gross lack of heart and belief - characteristics which usually embody any Liverpool side. On Sunday though, against the odds, we came out from the tunnel and finally imposed ourselves on Arsenal. With ten fired up men, we stretched them, kept the ball, and threatened their goal mouth after periods of constant pressure. For the first twenty minutes in the second half we ran them ragged and it was great to watch.

The three positives for me are the benching of Lucas and Insua, our water-tight defence, and how we came out for the second half.

The one concern I have, and I'm sure Roy will share this view, is our first half performance.

It was a refreshing and encouraging start form the lads.
 
Its self belief again, like the commentator said, when we went down to 10 men we seemed to think 'well if we get beat we are only 10 men' and actually started playing a lot better.
 
Predictable boring football from us in the first half. We played like a division 3 team. We were lucky that Arsenal was just as bad though they had most of the possession.
After Cole was sent off we suddenly played much better. But hard to judge a team that's missing a player.
 
I like the way that, as in the games against Rabotnicki, we're trying to play attacking football whenever the opportunity presents itself, instead of restricting ourselves to Rafa's usual regimented safety-first approach. Almost the biggest shame regarding his time at LFC was that he and the players proved at times that they COULD loosen the shackles and blow teams away, but he simply wouldn't learn from those occasions. Based on what I've seen so far, I'm hopeful that under Roy that kind of football won't be our last resort any more, and that the players will enjoy and respond to the greater freedom they're being given without losing their grip on the basics.
 
As unspectacular as we were in the first half, we weren't poor. While Arsenal had the bulk of the possession we were very solid defensively. First game jitters that's all. We must improve our ball retention and penetration skills.

Now Roy must be praised for his tactical acument and the lads for the second half performance. Being a man down it was refreshing to see that an attacking player was NOT sacrificed and substituted to chase a point. What a difference a season makes!

Plenty of positives from the game. I'm looking forward to improved performances and greater cohension.
 
[quote author=ankreds link=topic=41476.msg1156030#msg1156030 date=1282049543]
poor first half in all fairness but a brilliant second half we defended very very well.
[/quote]

On the whole, it is easy to look at it and feel pissed off because some of the old faults are still plain to see but considering the fucking disgraceful situation off the pitch the overall performance was very encouraging. Last season we were sulking straight from the get go, yesterday the players, although far from constituting a potential champions showed great character and fight which is a definite plus from the first game last season.

You could be pissed off with the result in terms of we need to win games and garner all the points but barring an aberation from the best keeper in the country we had Arsenal in the bag.... on the whole i was pretty pleased with how we did and i think we will be challenging for top four again.
 
I thought it was pretty poor fare to be honest. I was dissapointed with how much possession we gave up during the first half.

On a side note i thought United, Tottenham and Blackpool were all superb.
 
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=41476.msg1155992#msg1155992 date=1282045727]
Our midfield and attack was poor in the first half, after being outplayed and out manoeuvred by Arsenal side intent on keeping possession and forcing us deeper and deeper into our half, leaving the defence to stay strong and keep us in the match. I'm not convinced it was our tactics to sit deep, rather we just took our time finding our feet, with players in different positions, two new players on the team, and, unlike Arsenal, we lacked a distinct style of play to impose upon the opposition. Our chances only came from sublime long through balls from Steven Gerrard, but unfortunately N'gog kept mistiming his runs. Masher, N'gog, Dirk, Cole all had a pretty mediocre first 45 minutes.

What was reassuring was how we came out for the second half. Last season only Wigan had a worse record of us than coming back from behind after a goal, indicating our gross lack of heart and belief - characteristics which usually embody any Liverpool side. On Sunday though, against the odds, we came out from the tunnel and finally imposed ourselves on Arsenal. With ten fired up men, we stretched them, kept the ball, and threatened their goal mouth after periods of constant pressure. For the first twenty minutes in the second half we ran them ragged and it was great to watch.

The three positives for me are the benching of Lucas and Insua, our water-tight defence, and how we came out for the second half.

The one concern I have, and I'm sure Roy will share this view, is our first half performance.

It was a refreshing and encouraging start form the lads.
[/quote]
Lucas wasn't actively "benched" in terms of being left out deliberately. He was never going to start as he played for Brazil in the USA in midweek (and played well) and didn't arrive back until Friday, so just one day before the Arsenal game to prepare.
 
Lucas wasn't actively "benched" in terms of being left out deliberately. He was never going to start as he played for Brazil in the USA in midweek (and played well) and didn't arrive back until Friday, so just one day before the Arsenal game to prepare.

It was irrelevant where he'd been, he wouldn't have made that first XI anyway, because he's not good enough to displace anyone in it
 
I'm astounded at the amount of negativity in this thread, even more so from a stern Benitez backer moaning about us playing negative football, against Arsenal.

First and foremost, I thought we showed a tremendous display of character. Arsenal home or away is always a difficult match and one I personally dread more than playing the Mancs the majority of the time, because they always have a knack of carving us open with ease.

The first half was a nil contest, neither side looked with it, passing games were few and far between and for the most part we looked like we were weighing Arsenal up and trying not to give anything away. On another day, without a sending off it would have worked too, because we made them work and then hit them with some ferocity over a 20 minute spell which they could barely cope with. And that was with 10 men.

Lets show some perspective, it's hard for any team to get going on the first day of the season, particularly when playing decent-or-above opponents. In recent years we've blundered our way through qualification games for the Champions League at this stage, usually against bin-men. So to consider that many of the squad have barely even played a friendly for us this pre-season and we were playing a side as measured as any Arsenal side is (despite their absentees they have a well drilled setup), I thought it was a fairly stellar, promising performance of things to come.

There seems to be this ideal that Hodgson is a negative coach. He's a coach that has his back 6 set in a rigid system, where everyone knows what they're doing, and that's exactly how it looked. And he then allows the attackers freedom to more or less play their natural games with fluidity and movement, with others (like Masher and Johnson on Sunday) joining the play to help us attack in numbers. Arsenal couldn't cope with the versatility of our play in attack yesterday at times. We were a threat in the air and we had a front four who would interchange roles. It wasn't Brazil, nor Spain for that matter, but it was pleasing on the eye in fits and starts, and a good pointer to what we can expect. WE WERE PLAYING ARSENAL, not Newcastle.

So regards us playing a so called negative game, I'd remind people we were playing with 10 men for more than half the match and we were dominant in spells, for the most part more solid than we've looked for a long time and we were incredibly unlucky to not come away with 3 points.

That's the only disappointment right there, that 10 man (for 50 minutes) Liverpool dropped two points to an unfortunate goalkeeping error, against Arsenal.

I despair sometimes.
 
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=41476.msg1156074#msg1156074 date=1282056947]
I'm astounded at the amount of negativity in this thread, even more so from a stern Benitez backer moaning about us playing negative football, against Arsenal.

First and foremost, I thought we showed a tremendous display of character. Arsenal home or away is always a difficult match and one I personally dread more than playing the Mancs the majority of the time, because they always have a knack of carving us open with ease.

The first half was a nil contest, neither side looked with it, passing games were few and far between and for the most part we looked like we were weighing Arsenal up and trying not to give anything away. On another day, without a sending off it would have worked too, because we made them work and then hit them with some ferocity over a 20 minute spell which they could barely cope with. And that was with 10 men.

Lets show some perspective, it's hard for any team to get going on the first day of the season, particularly when playing decent-or-above opponents. In recent years we've blundered our way through qualification games for the Champions League at this stage, usually against bin-men. So to consider that many of the squad have barely even played a friendly for us this pre-season and we were playing a side as measured as any Arsenal side is (despite their absentees they have a well drilled setup), I thought it was a fairly stellar, promising performance of things to come.

There seems to be this ideal that Hodgson is a negative coach. He's a coach that has his back 6 set in a rigid system, where everyone knows what they're doing, and that's exactly how it looked. And he then allows the attackers freedom to more or less play their natural games with fluidity and movement, with others (like Masher and Johnson on Sunday) joining the play to help us attack in numbers. Arsenal couldn't cope with the versatility of our play in attack yesterday at times. We were a threat in the air and we had a front four who would interchange roles. It wasn't Brazil, nor Spain for that matter, but it was pleasing on the eye in fits and starts, and a good pointer to what we can expect. WE WERE PLAYING ARSENAL, not Newcastle.

So regards us playing a so called negative game, I'd remind people we were playing with 10 men for more than half the match and we were dominant in spells, for the most part more solid than we've looked for a long time and we were incredibly unlucky to not come away with 3 points.

That's the only disappointment right there, that 10 man (for 50 minutes) Liverpool dropped two points to an unfortunate goalkeeping error, against Arsenal.

I despair sometimes.
[/quote]

I despair if you thought we were "weighing Arsenal up" in the first 45 minutes. They were well on top. And we were on top in the second half.

As for "we were playing Arsenal, not Newcastle"..... fuck that.

They were playing Liverpool. At Anfield. We can't afford to drop points at home to anyone. And nor should we.

So get off your fucking high horse. in the cold light of day, it wasn't great. It wasn't poor. There were signs of promise. We drew. We need to improve.
 
The team fought very well in the face of adversity - That can only be a positive.

As for, style of play etc...I will comment after the United game.

So far so good.
 
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=41476.msg1156080#msg1156080 date=1282057729]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=41476.msg1156074#msg1156074 date=1282056947]
I'm astounded at the amount of negativity in this thread, even more so from a stern Benitez backer moaning about us playing negative football, against Arsenal.

First and foremost, I thought we showed a tremendous display of character. Arsenal home or away is always a difficult match and one I personally dread more than playing the Mancs the majority of the time, because they always have a knack of carving us open with ease.

The first half was a nil contest, neither side looked with it, passing games were few and far between and for the most part we looked like we were weighing Arsenal up and trying not to give anything away. On another day, without a sending off it would have worked too, because we made them work and then hit them with some ferocity over a 20 minute spell which they could barely cope with. And that was with 10 men.

Lets show some perspective, it's hard for any team to get going on the first day of the season, particularly when playing decent-or-above opponents. In recent years we've blundered our way through qualification games for the Champions League at this stage, usually against bin-men. So to consider that many of the squad have barely even played a friendly for us this pre-season and we were playing a side as measured as any Arsenal side is (despite their absentees they have a well drilled setup), I thought it was a fairly stellar, promising performance of things to come.

There seems to be this ideal that Hodgson is a negative coach. He's a coach that has his back 6 set in a rigid system, where everyone knows what they're doing, and that's exactly how it looked. And he then allows the attackers freedom to more or less play their natural games with fluidity and movement, with others (like Masher and Johnson on Sunday) joining the play to help us attack in numbers. Arsenal couldn't cope with the versatility of our play in attack yesterday at times. We were a threat in the air and we had a front four who would interchange roles. It wasn't Brazil, nor Spain for that matter, but it was pleasing on the eye in fits and starts, and a good pointer to what we can expect. WE WERE PLAYING ARSENAL, not Newcastle.

So regards us playing a so called negative game, I'd remind people we were playing with 10 men for more than half the match and we were dominant in spells, for the most part more solid than we've looked for a long time and we were incredibly unlucky to not come away with 3 points.

That's the only disappointment right there, that 10 man (for 50 minutes) Liverpool dropped two points to an unfortunate goalkeeping error, against Arsenal.

I despair sometimes.
[/quote]

I despair if you thought we were "weighing Arsenal up" in the first 45 minutes. They were well on top. And we were on top in the second half.

As for "we were playing Arsenal, not Newcastle"..... fuck that.

They were playing Liverpool. At Anfield. We can't afford to drop points at home to anyone. And nor should we.

So get off your fucking high horse. in the cold light of day, it wasn't great. It wasn't poor. There were signs of promise. We drew. We need to improve.
[/quote]

We drew with 10 men for more than half the game, people are acting like it's two points dropped because we played shit against a team we should have beaten. Errr no, it was Arsenal, a team who are always there or there abouts (and who often give us a hiding) and we were unfortunate to lose Cole and unfortunate with the goal.
 
Arsenal weren't at their best either, mate.

Their midfield overran outs in the first half with a scrambled together CM partnership, which included a kid playing out of position.

We were far from poor, but some people rightly have a few concerns.
 
If the game would have finished at half time I'd have said we were bollocks. The second half was less about skill and more blood and guts, which we would seem to have in abundance.... - but on reflection, how long has it been since we've bettered Arse at passing a ball around? I think it was in black and white, or George Graham was just being sacked for taking bungs. We can't really expect to match them for that kind of thing, so it was good that we battered them with passion and all that other guff in the second half instead.
 
[quote author=crump link=topic=41476.msg1156096#msg1156096 date=1282059945]
If the game would have finished at half time I'd have said we were bollocks. The second half was less about skill and more blood and guts, which we would seem to have in abundance.... - but on reflection, how long has it been since we've bettered Arse at passing a ball around? I think it was in black and white, or George Graham was just being sacked for taking bungs. We can't really expect to match them for that kind of thing, so it was good that we battered them with passion and all that other guff in the second half instead.
[/quote]

When Crouch scored a hat-trick.
 
I remember one of the goals but the rest... evades me. They should play at about 10am when I've got half a chance of being sober.
 
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=41476.msg1156090#msg1156090 date=1282059651]
Arsenal weren't at their best either, mate.

Their midfield overran outs in the first half with a scrambled together CM partnership, which included a kid playing out of position.

We were far from poor, but some people rightly have a few concerns.
[/quote]

Fair enough, though I think we've suffered against Arsenal in the past when they've had to put out a weakened side, because they just stick to the same brand of football that's more or less drilled into them.

Either way, with a bit of perspective, once we got going it was promising, and I think we can be forgiven for taking our time in the first match of the season, given the opposition and circumstances.
 
I think I take the upper middle-ground on this (if there is such a place but you know what I mean).
If this years fixtures came out the day the season ended I would have been very pessimitic of our chances of escaping the game with Arsenal's score in single figures.
As it turns out I was fairly optimistic prior to the game that we could get a result.
At the end of the first half I would have happily taken the draw. As it turns out I am a bit miffed we did not get three points.
Arsenal do what Arsenal do best, they did play well in the first half and to an extent we let them, and as Portly has pointed out in other threads , fortunately Arsenal do what they do worst....try and walk the ball into the net most of the time.
I think we were really good value for our draw, the sending off was controvercial , not that Joe was fantastically influential, but it cost us in the end as we were worn down and needed the extra body.
There was plenty of spirit, Cole will be more infleuntial, Jovo had a good first outing. Lucas was kept out of the way until we had no option.
I am not in the camp that says we can't drop home points to top four sides. I am in the camp that says there is no point in superhuman effort in those games to eke out very hard earned points against Arsenal, Chelsea and United at home, just to throw them away when we play Wolves, Blackpool WBA et al.


There is an irony in this season. last year some foolish pundits had us down as favourites to lift the PL, presumably based on the foolish notion we deserved our second place the previous year. However, I firmly believe we are already stronger in the squad and the maangement than we were last year, with more new players to arrive, and yet we are consigned by those same people in the Villa and Spurs bracket (at best).
I think if we can get a decent support striker to help Nando and cover when he is not available, we will finnish in a better position than last year and could, with a bit of luck push for a fourth spot, dependant how City settle.
So Overall thoughts..................In with a better shout and more to come

regards
 
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