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Our System of Play

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beejay

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I thought I would start a new thread on this, because there's a lot of discussion about players but not so much on whether they suit the system we are playing.

Put simply, we are 4-3-3 but with the wide players up front dropping back when we don't have the ball to leave a lone striker - either Firmino, Origi or Sturridge.

Now I have come to the conclusion that Brendan may be right after all and we do need an out-and-out goal-scoring striker. We would have won 2 or 3-0 yesterday because we had City on the ropes but through poor judgement and lack of a clinical edge, we could not finish them off when they were there for the taking.

But where I differ, is in my belief that Firmino is a top class player who should be one of the first names on the team-sheet, but not as a sole striker.

We also have an out-of-form but top class player in Coutinho who, in my opinion, is far more suited to an advanced central role and is wasted wide out on the left. Firmino really struggled when he deputised in that position as well.

Mane is brilliant and has nailed down the wide right position.

So, how do we fit in an ace new striker to blend with the talents of Firmino, Coutinho & Mane? That's Klopp's dilemma and he will have his own ideas but I'm wondering if we should look at other systems - either (1) the Chelsea & Spurs system that is working so well for them or (2) the midfield diamond?

(1) Three at the back (Lovren, Matip, Clyne) ; Two attacking wing-backs (Milner & Mane) ; Two central midfielders (Henderson & Wijnaldum) ; Two attacking midfielders with a licence to find space and link the play (Firmino & Coutinho) ; and one boss new striker.

(2) Usual Four at the back ; Henderson at the base of the diamond ; Wijnaldum & Mane either side ; Coutinho at the tip ; Firmino & new striker up front.

Something has to give because I just don't think the system we are playing is getting the best out of the players we have and it would mean way more teambuilding to change the players rather than the formation.
 
The return of Roberto Firmino was crucial, both for his work rate without possession and his movement into deeper positions when Liverpool built passing moves, finding space in behind Yaya Touré.

From Michael Cox.

Slot a traditional number 9 in for Firmino and what do you lose from the above? Obviously there is no definitive answer to that question, but we are top scorers in the league. Scoring goals isn't the problem. Stop letting so many in against spuds and we'll be laughing.
 
The return of Roberto Firmino was crucial, both for his work rate without possession and his movement into deeper positions when Liverpool built passing moves, finding space in behind Yaya Touré.

From Michael Cox.

Slot a traditional number 9 in for Firmino and what do you lose from the above? Obviously there is no definitive answer to that question, but we are top scorers in the league. Scoring goals isn't the problem. Stop letting so many in against spuds and we'll be laughing.

Tactically, it can work well against some sides but the goals have dried up away from home, where in 7 games this year we have scored 6 goals. Against the weaker sides, there is no virtue in Firmino dropping deeper into midfield to break up supply lines. They sit deep and the way to beat them is to get in behind and convert crosses but Firmino's many strengths do not include regularly getting on the end of crosses, he is better at feeding them.
 
Yep, a good point, bj. Horses for courses to a certain extent, I guess. Though I am still not sure the answer is getting in a traditional number 9 and I'm not sure Klopp will go that way. Maybe we need more pace on the opposite flank to Mane to stretch packed defences.
 
I doubt if a traditional striker would function in a Klopp team, I'm thinking more of a mobile, hard working forward who can link with the skillful players around him but is a genuine goalscorer.
 
I doubt if a traditional striker would function in a Klopp team, I'm thinking more of a mobile, hard working forward who can link with the skillful players around him but is a genuine goalscorer.

Like who? Suarez would obviously be perfect for this role but what other player(s) do you think are capable of this?
 
Our best bet would probably be someone like Icardi or Belotti. Both would cost a shitload mind. Aubameyang would also be ace but he'll cost way more than we can afford.
Maybe Dolberg can be coached into that player. Not sure about Lacazettes work rate but he also fits the other criteria, a bit of a shortarse mind.
 
Haha ok I will come up with a plan in a bit, I'm too busy listening to the Arsenal meltdown on talksport which is priceless
 
Oh, back to this again. Firmino is the only striker in the world who can play in Klopp's preferred Liverpool system.

Which is funny, because Klopp is obviously going to buy a striker in summer, so I wonder what the chat will be then?

Actually, I don't.
 
Its not as bad as when people used to argue that Rafa's plan involved a non scoring striker like Crouch up front. But it is a bit like that.
 
For the prices we pay, there's not. Which is probably why Firmino is not going to be replaced.

Money will go on a wide player or two, defenders, probably a good midfielder and a good - but young - striker.
 
Moussa Dembele would be great in my opinion. Fast young and a good finisher of all types of goals.
 
I meant this thread to be more about the system than touting new players because we don't want a massive rebuilding programme in the summer and therefore have to find a way to use the top players we have (such as Firmino, Coutinho & Mane) and add to them.
 
Klopp adored Lewandowski.

You'll be lucky to find better 'number 9's' out there.

We desperately need one and I am as others 99.99% certain we will address that come Summer.
 
In my view the overall strength of a side can be assessed with how they perform away and the ease with which they can win away from home. Of the top 5 sides we find it most difficult so dont really matter on systems or tactics our players are not good enough.
 
The fear long term and as seen in the dismal run in Jan / Feb is that they ‘system’ needs 7/8 players playing at their best to work. Th

Signing a world class striker could change that.
 
Klopp adored Lewandowski.

You'll be lucky to find better 'number 9's' out there.

We desperately need one and I am as others 99.99% certain we will address that come Summer.

Klopp developed Lewandowski and while he may do similar again (buy and develop) he just won't be forking out a small fortune on a number 9. It doesn't make any sense.
 
Depends on your definition of fortune I guess.

£60M - no way.

£30M - indeed way.

For £30m we'll get a very talented - but probably unproven - youngster and I definitely don't think we'll spend north of that for someone more experienced. Hence I don't think we'll be replacing Firmino.
 
For £30m we'll get a very talented - but probably unproven - youngster and I definitely don't think we'll spend north of that for someone more experienced. Hence I don't think we'll be replacing Firmino.

We started off the season with 4 strikers but Firmino is the only one who has made any meaningful contribution and to me, his best role is as an attacking forward.

We will sell Sturridge and hopefully loan or sell Origi. Danny Ings is an unknown quantity due to his injuries. That means we might be looking at bringing in 2 strikers, let alone one. The alternative is a goal-scoring wide player who can deputise as a striker in some games, someone like Brandt or Alex Teixeira who was top scorer for his team in China last season with 11 goals in 28 games.
 
I think Firmino needs some proper competition for his place. He was awful (admittedly with the rest of the team) for a good 6 weeks or so and there was no-one we could really replace him with apart from Origi who is struggling quite badly this season.

In an ideal world, we'd get someone better and Firmino would be the backup / alternative for certain types of games.

Either way, if we qualify for European football (be it CL or EL), we're short up front.
 
(1) Three at the back (Lovren, Matip, Clyne) ; Two attacking wing-backs (Milner & Mane) ; Two central midfielders (Henderson & Wijnaldum) ; Two attacking midfielders with a licence to find space and link the play (Firmino & Coutinho) ; and one boss new striker.

(2) Usual Four at the back ; Henderson at the base of the diamond ; Wijnaldum & Mane either side ; Coutinho at the tip ; Firmino & new striker up front.

Option one - our most dangerous attacker is suddenly playing 15 metres further back as a wing back. No.

Option two - Mane is not going into central midfield to play alongside Henderson. Nah.In a midfield diamond your two midfielders who play alongside the holding midfielder need to be absolute workhorses. Why make our most dangerous attacker play there?

You left off the most obvious solution which is a 4-2-3-1 with Coutinho, Firmino and Mane operating behind a goal scorer. Lallana can play in any of the 3 roles behind the striker so he'd end up playing more often than not.
 
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