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Our marking

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mark1975

mark1975

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I'm not even gonna mention 'zonal'.

It's quite clear there's something chronically wrong with our system of set plays, both attacking and defensive.

It's always taken us time in seasons to fully get to grips with the system we use, denying that would just be fucking stupid, given the evidence is as clear as day.

Today, Reina punches the ball, rushes back to his line, sees two follow ups which he does magnificently to parry and then sees a third put in the back of the net. The only other player to move was rooky Kelly, a guy not yet adept/brainwashed with our 'system' of marking from setpieces. Meanwhile 7 or so seasoned, International professionals stand there doing fuck all.

Explain where I'm going wrong with my assertion that our marking from setpieces is inadequate?

I don't know whether it's the system, us getting the system horribly wrong, or a combination of both, but it doesn't fucking work. I hate dragging up stats, so I'm not going to, but my memory serves me well enough to tell me that a high proportion of our goals conceded this season have come from corners or freekicks. Balls from wide areas have generally exploited us because when we've seen replays it's often show the bank of four dragged, watching zones and generally marking no one.

It's shite and it's been shite for years. This has been a long time coming.
 
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=36561.msg967034#msg967034 date=1256073293]
I don't know what to tell you mate ...
[/quote]

OK, case in point. I thought Agger made us generally look more composed today when it came to putting a foot on the ball and he was (largely) his composed self too defensively, yet the errors where still there, in spite of the change.
 
we thank you for your observation and analysis you will make it as a pundit on sky sports
 
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=36561.msg967042#msg967042 date=1256073382]
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=36561.msg967034#msg967034 date=1256073293]
I don't know what to tell you mate ...
[/quote]

OK, case in point. I thought Agger made us generally look more composed today when it came to putting a foot on the ball and he was his general composed self too defensively, yet the error's where still there, in spite of the change.
[/quote]

It pains me to say this, but something isn't right with Carra ... and he needs a rest. I think that may help, but I somehow doubt it. And I think Insua is taking a LOT of unnecessary heat here - he's not nearly as bad as people are making it to be, not that he's any good.

You know what this team is lacking right now Mark? I'll tell you what ...

1) Confidence
2) Leadership on the pitch ... and I don't know who this will come from, we need a 'Roy Keane' like player to just explode on our players
3) Heart - Pride ... They're wearing the Liverpool shirt for christ's sake. It's a privilege not a right.

Get those 3 things, and our defense will improve.
 
I'll tell you what the problem is, we are set up to win the first ball and then push up as a unit to catch everyone offside. we aren't winning the first ball.
what most galling is everytime the opposition take a corner there is aboslute panic in our area but every time we take a corner they deal with it comfortably because it is either sailing over everyone's head or hitting the first man. I really miss gary mac and sami.
 
[quote author=aquaman4 link=topic=36561.msg967050#msg967050 date=1256073504]
we thank you for your observation and analysis you will make it as a pundit on sky sports
[/quote]

Of course yeah, because it's obviously not an issue if it's been covered by pundits.

I don't need some bellend on SkySports to influence my own thinking, nice one though, it was well expected from at least one reply.
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=36561.msg967061#msg967061 date=1256073600]
I'll tell you what the problem is, we are set up to win the first ball and then push up as a unit to catch everyone offside. we aren't winning the first ball.

[/quote]

That's definitely a factor Neil, great point. I've seen too many good teams attack us from the edge of the box to counter said point.
 
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=36561.msg967080#msg967080 date=1256073731]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=36561.msg967061#msg967061 date=1256073600]
I'll tell you what the problem is, we are set up to win the first ball and then push up as a unit to catch everyone offside. we aren't winning the first ball.

[/quote]

That's definitely a factor Neil, great point. I've seen too many good teams attack us from the edge of the box to counter said point.
[/quote]

you'd think with the amount of goals we've conceed rafa would kick this tactic inot touch and put people on the posts. sigh...
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=36561.msg967093#msg967093 date=1256073865]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=36561.msg967080#msg967080 date=1256073731]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=36561.msg967061#msg967061 date=1256073600]
I'll tell you what the problem is, we are set up to win the first ball and then push up as a unit to catch everyone offside. we aren't winning the first ball.

[/quote]

That's definitely a factor Neil, great point. I've seen too many good teams attack us from the edge of the box to counter said point.
[/quote]

you'd think with the amount of goals we've conceed rafa would kick this tactic inot touch and put people on the posts. sigh...
[/quote]

It said it all that Kelly was the only one who moved, and got injured in the process. Reina's frustration spoke volumes too.

It's too easy I guess to grab the 'zonal marking' phrase out of the air and argue for or against it, the fact is our marking from setpieces has been suspect on and off under Benitez and only a naive fan would state otherwise. Put it down to the players? Who coaches the fucking players?
 
I think that the full backs are encouraged to attack more and that is leaving us exposed.
 
[quote author=refugee link=topic=36561.msg967111#msg967111 date=1256074070]
I think that the full backs are encouraged to attack more and that is leaving us exposed.
[/quote]

I think it's hindered us from open play, I've said a zillion times about how Arbeloa used to drop inside and cover to compress the space. But setpieces? They're just shite, because we just stand there.
 
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=36561.msg967106#msg967106 date=1256074011]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=36561.msg967093#msg967093 date=1256073865]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=36561.msg967080#msg967080 date=1256073731]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=36561.msg967061#msg967061 date=1256073600]
I'll tell you what the problem is, we are set up to win the first ball and then push up as a unit to catch everyone offside. we aren't winning the first ball.

[/quote]

That's definitely a factor Neil, great point. I've seen too many good teams attack us from the edge of the box to counter said point.
[/quote]

you'd think with the amount of goals we've conceed rafa would kick this tactic inot touch and put people on the posts. sigh...
[/quote]

It said it all that Kelly was the only one who moved, and got injured in the process. Reina's frustration spoke volumes too.

It's too easy I guess to grab the 'zonal marking' phrase out of the air and argue for or against it, the fact is our marking from setpieces has been suspect on and off under Benitez and only a naive fan would state otherwise. Put it down to the players? Who coaches the fucking players?
[/quote]

personally I don't blame the players putting people on posts when you are zonal marking makes no tactical sense at all you either man mark with people on the posts or you zonal mark and rush up as a unit (the people on posts would play everyone on side)
if there is blame to maybe place on the players is they are no longer attacking the ball when the corner is taken, they are waiting for the ball to come to them rather than going to ball, that's why the opposition are winning so many headers because they have the momentum.
 
[quote author=refugee link=topic=36561.msg967111#msg967111 date=1256074070]
I think that the full backs are encouraged to attack more and that is leaving us exposed.
[/quote]

which has nothing to do with set peices. we have conceeded precious few goals from open play.
 
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=36561.msg967024#msg967024 date=1256073240]
I'm not even gonna mention 'zonal'.

It's quite clear there's something chronically wrong with our system of set plays, both attacking and defensive.

It's always taken us time in seasons to fully get to grips with the system we use, denying that would just be fucking stupid, given the evidence is as clear as day.

Today, Reina punches the ball, rushes back to his line, sees two follow ups which he does magnificently to parry and then sees a third put in the back of the net. The only other player to move was rooky Kelly, a guy not yet adept/brainwashed with our 'system' of marking from setpieces. Meanwhile 7 or so seasoned, International professionals stand there doing fuck all.

Explain where I'm going wrong with my assertion that our marking from setpieces is inadequate?

I don't know whether it's the system, us getting the system horribly wrong, or a combination of both, but it doesn't fucking work. I hate dragging up stats, so I'm not going to, but my memory serves me well enough to tell me that a high proportion of our goals conceded this season have come from corners or freekicks. Balls from wide areas have generally exploited us because when we've seen replays it's often show the bank of four dragged, watching zones and generally marking no one.

It's shite and it's been shite for years. This has been a long time coming.
[/quote]

Firstly, Reina's "punch" wasn't good enough. If you're gonna come for it like that, and get your fist to it, it's gotta clear the penalty box. Yes, he followed it up with two excellent saves, but it should never have come to that.

Secondly, Insua got sucked in badly for the 2nd goal. There was no need to leave his position, and get so tight to his opponent when he did. It left a big gaping hole behind him, leaving Agger two-on-one, and Lyon were clever enough to get a goal from it. You can put it down to inexperience on Insua's side, but really we need better than that. In injury time in the Champions League, you've got to be more disciplined than that. To those that have blamed Carragher for the 2nd, wise the fuck up.
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=36561.msg967345#msg967345 date=1256079833]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=36561.msg967024#msg967024 date=1256073240]
I'm not even gonna mention 'zonal'.

It's quite clear there's something chronically wrong with our system of set plays, both attacking and defensive.

It's always taken us time in seasons to fully get to grips with the system we use, denying that would just be fucking stupid, given the evidence is as clear as day.

Today, Reina punches the ball, rushes back to his line, sees two follow ups which he does magnificently to parry and then sees a third put in the back of the net. The only other player to move was rooky Kelly, a guy not yet adept/brainwashed with our 'system' of marking from setpieces. Meanwhile 7 or so seasoned, International professionals stand there doing fuck all.

Explain where I'm going wrong with my assertion that our marking from setpieces is inadequate?

I don't know whether it's the system, us getting the system horribly wrong, or a combination of both, but it doesn't fucking work. I hate dragging up stats, so I'm not going to, but my memory serves me well enough to tell me that a high proportion of our goals conceded this season have come from corners or freekicks. Balls from wide areas have generally exploited us because when we've seen replays it's often show the bank of four dragged, watching zones and generally marking no one.

It's shite and it's been shite for years. This has been a long time coming. 
[/quote]

Firstly, Reina's "punch" wasn't good enough. If you're gonna come for it like that, and get your fist to it, it's gotta clear the penalty box. Yes, he followed it up with two excellent saves, but it should never have come to that.

Secondly, Insua got sucked in badly for the 2nd goal. There was no need to leave his position, and get so tight to his opponent when he did. It left a big gaping hole behind him, leaving Agger two-on-one, and Lyon were clever enough to get a goal from it. You can put it down to inexperience on Insua's side, but really we need better than that. In injury time in the Champions League, you've got to be more disciplined than that. To those that have blamed Carragher for the 2nd, wise the fuck up.
[/quote]


If you had any fucking clue ryan you would see the repaly and see that carragher didnt even look behind him, so when the ball was played in he merely jogged towards it and then realised ohh fuck but by then it was too late.
lay-off insua because he played better than most of the other players on the night and he commited to him because he wouldve thought he had his cb's covering for him.
its not good enough on carraghers part because delgado was carraghers man, he was near the half way line when pjanic had the ball on the edge of the box, so instead of jogging carragher shouldv fucking run.
As for reina, it seems like he is the only player that is trying out there. He came for the punch and he got the ball, just no one decided to mark the lyon player that kicked it, then he even made two fantastic saves while everyone stood there while kelly made an effort to stop us concedeing the goal. so dont say reina didnt do good enough, because clearly the other players were fucking useless.
Also this zonal marking shit is fucking useless, when will that fat fuck learn?
ive always defended benitez when my friends or anyone have given him shit but ive had enough of the cunt
 
[quote author=zlatan18 link=topic=36561.msg967429#msg967429 date=1256095889]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=36561.msg967345#msg967345 date=1256079833]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=36561.msg967024#msg967024 date=1256073240]
I'm not even gonna mention 'zonal'.

It's quite clear there's something chronically wrong with our system of set plays, both attacking and defensive.

It's always taken us time in seasons to fully get to grips with the system we use, denying that would just be fucking stupid, given the evidence is as clear as day.

Today, Reina punches the ball, rushes back to his line, sees two follow ups which he does magnificently to parry and then sees a third put in the back of the net. The only other player to move was rooky Kelly, a guy not yet adept/brainwashed with our 'system' of marking from setpieces. Meanwhile 7 or so seasoned, International professionals stand there doing fuck all.

Explain where I'm going wrong with my assertion that our marking from setpieces is inadequate?

I don't know whether it's the system, us getting the system horribly wrong, or a combination of both, but it doesn't fucking work. I hate dragging up stats, so I'm not going to, but my memory serves me well enough to tell me that a high proportion of our goals conceded this season have come from corners or freekicks. Balls from wide areas have generally exploited us because when we've seen replays it's often show the bank of four dragged, watching zones and generally marking no one.

It's shite and it's been shite for years. This has been a long time coming.
[/quote]

Firstly, Reina's "punch" wasn't good enough. If you're gonna come for it like that, and get your fist to it, it's gotta clear the penalty box. Yes, he followed it up with two excellent saves, but it should never have come to that.

Secondly, Insua got sucked in badly for the 2nd goal. There was no need to leave his position, and get so tight to his opponent when he did. It left a big gaping hole behind him, leaving Agger two-on-one, and Lyon were clever enough to get a goal from it. You can put it down to inexperience on Insua's side, but really we need better than that. In injury time in the Champions League, you've got to be more disciplined than that. To those that have blamed Carragher for the 2nd, wise the fuck up.
[/quote]


If you had any fucking clue ryan you would see the repaly and see that carragher didnt even look behind him, so when the ball was played in he merely jogged towards it and then realised ohh fuck but by then it was too late.
lay-off insua because he played better than most of the other players on the night and he commited to him because he wouldve thought he had his cb's covering for him.
its not good enough on carraghers part because delgado was carraghers man, he was near the half way line when pjanic had the ball on the edge of the box, so instead of jogging carragher shouldv fucking run.
As for reina, it seems like he is the only player that is trying out there. He came for the punch and he got the ball, just no one decided to mark the lyon player that kicked it, then he even made two fantastic saves while everyone stood there while kelly made an effort to stop us concedeing the goal. so dont say reina didnt do good enough, because clearly the other players were fucking useless.
Also this zonal marking shit is fucking useless, when will that fat fuck learn?
ive always defended benitez when my friends or anyone have given him shit but ive had enough of the cunt
[/quote]

As if I'm reading that.
 
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