You haven't seen his youtube I take it. He whacks the ball every time he gets it.
Our centre halves
- Thread starter Dreambeliever
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You haven't seen his youtube I take it. He whacks the ball every time he gets it.
Sometimes very very good sometimes horrid
It's not rocket science is it?
We haven't looked consistently tough to get past since Sami left for Germany. He dominated the air like few other CB's while at the same time being able to pass the ball out of the back and chip in with a few goals. It was obviously always going to be a little tricky replacing him.
That said, our issue is not an inability to pass the ball out of the back nor missing goals from our CB's; our issue is commanding that space between someone standing 5 foot 10 and Peter Crouch. I've said for years - and certainly not on my own - that neither Skrtel nor Agger can do that and, for those thinking the answer is on the bench, neither can Coates. As Vlad alludes to, we need a thumping great giant with a yard dog mentality to stand next to one of Agger or Skrtel. Someone who makes Martin look pretty. He doesn't need to have great feet, silky skills or anything - that's just a bonus. He needs to be about 6 foot 5 and weigh about 220 pounds. End of job description.
I'd agree with Woland, as well. Our midfield, defensively, is really poor at the moment. The mopping up of a stray ball is being done but nobody is stopping the opposing CM's running at us. I don't think it's going to take 18 months but Rosco was right about the assertion it will take Lucas a while to get up to speed. He's about 90% there just now but how long that last 10% is going to take is the big question. I'm pretty sure it will come but we need it very soon. We had an ugly little yard dog who'd make a big difference right now in midfield but most of us (including me, probably) deemed him not good enough and he's elsewhere.
For mine, we have a very good defensive line up - but it needs tweaking.
We have a very good midfield lineup - but it needs tweaking.
We have a forward line that needs surgery.
We're not going to get all these areas addressed in January so I hope we have the surgery now and leave the tweaking till the summer.
We haven't looked consistently tough to get past since Sami left for Germany. He dominated the air like few other CB's while at the same time being able to pass the ball out of the back and chip in with a few goals. It was obviously always going to be a little tricky replacing him.
That said, our issue is not an inability to pass the ball out of the back nor missing goals from our CB's; our issue is commanding that space between someone standing 5 foot 10 and Peter Crouch. I've said for years - and certainly not on my own - that neither Skrtel nor Agger can do that and, for those thinking the answer is on the bench, neither can Coates. As Vlad alludes to, we need a thumping great giant with a yard dog mentality to stand next to one of Agger or Skrtel. Someone who makes Martin look pretty. He doesn't need to have great feet, silky skills or anything - that's just a bonus. He needs to be about 6 foot 5 and weigh about 220 pounds. End of job description.
I'd agree with Woland, as well. Our midfield, defensively, is really poor at the moment. The mopping up of a stray ball is being done but nobody is stopping the opposing CM's running at us. I don't think it's going to take 18 months but Rosco was right about the assertion it will take Lucas a while to get up to speed. He's about 90% there just now but how long that last 10% is going to take is the big question. I'm pretty sure it will come but we need it very soon. We had an ugly little yard dog who'd make a big difference right now in midfield but most of us (including me, probably) deemed him not good enough and he's elsewhere.
For mine, we have a very good defensive line up - but it needs tweaking.
We have a very good midfield lineup - but it needs tweaking.
We have a forward line that needs surgery.
We're not going to get all these areas addressed in January so I hope we have the surgery now and leave the tweaking till the summer.
I agree to a point. Our midfield is so static/weak that they're not helping enough in their defensive duties
Saying that, agger and skrtel were piss weak the other day
Our defence coaching may also have something to do with them being a little shit at the moment.
Lucas, Allen, Shelvey...
Those are the reason why our centre halves look shaky...worst midfielders to partner Gerrard in a decade.
Allen has been shite, Shelvey woeful against Stoke, Lucas a complete passenger since he came back.
Id play 2 in the middle and maybe add Carra at the back.
--------------Carra
---------Skrtel--Agger
Gj---------Gerrard-----Enrique
-------------Cole
Sterling---Suarez---Downing(Suso)
Those are the reason why our centre halves look shaky...worst midfielders to partner Gerrard in a decade.
Allen has been shite, Shelvey woeful against Stoke, Lucas a complete passenger since he came back.
Id play 2 in the middle and maybe add Carra at the back.
--------------Carra
---------Skrtel--Agger
Gj---------Gerrard-----Enrique
-------------Cole
Sterling---Suarez---Downing(Suso)
If Coates can't get a game now with the way those 2 are playing, there really is nothing down for him.
I'd give him a run of games at Agger's expense, who is all over the fucking place in every game.
I'd give him a run of games at Agger's expense, who is all over the fucking place in every game.
Agreed. Although a good defensive midfielder could minimise the damage (to the defence) caused by attacking full backs.
Bullshit. No steel in midfield. No one covering the posts. Poor defensive organisation more than personell... and a very unlucky Skrtle. If we think they are poor we dont know how lucky we are to have such fine defenders.
The first goal Stoke scored was a comedy of errors from Agger and Skrtel. First Agger heading what should have been a routine clearance back towards his own goal, and then Skrtel forgetting where his feet are. Nothing to do with midfielders. That's not to say you don't have a point about our midfielders, but you can't simply absolve Agger and Skrtel of responsibility. They've both been some way off their best this season.
It was a comedy of errors that had nothing to do with attacking full backs or our midfield.
A long goal kick, a corner and a throw in. Basic defending that we were prepared to deal with.
Agger lost 2-3 key headers and marking, Skrtel slipped and Johnson didnt cover the near post.
It had fuck all to do with attacking fullbacks.
Which plenty of other teams use without being shite in defence.
A long goal kick, a corner and a throw in. Basic defending that we were prepared to deal with.
Agger lost 2-3 key headers and marking, Skrtel slipped and Johnson didnt cover the near post.
It had fuck all to do with attacking fullbacks.
Which plenty of other teams use without being shite in defence.
That is what we needed against Stoke in their backyard, when our 'tikki takka' defenders were made to look like physically inferior schoolboys
Don't know what game you were watching Pat, but we did. The issue wasn't that we weren't winning the long ball, it was that the midfield wasn't winning it in front of the back four. Every long ball that was pumped forward, Agger was stepping out from the back and winning it, but leaving Skrtel isolated. What happened the odd few times that Agger didn't get there was that they were in. It happened two years ago at the Britannia, they employed the same tactic of trying to win the flick on just infront of our back line, and Agger stepped out, was beaten to it by Crouch, letting Walters run in behind which led to the goal. Like I said earlier, why don't we learn from this stuff?
As Woland said, the midfield is piss poor and offers no protection at all. Add the fact that they are constantly going wide to protect the fullbacks as they have no real protection ahead of them, it leaves gaping holes that are being exploited by teams over and over again.
I'm talking more in terms of the season, not just Stoke
. So its not bullshit
I like Skrtel and Agger but they seem mentally weak. They drop deep far too much, get bullied, and make some shit mistakes.
That said, they are constantly left terribly exposed by the midfield which really doesn't help matters and makes them look worse than they are. I think it's just symptomatic of how fragile we are as a team. We don't score nearly enough goals, which ramps up the pressure on the back line to not concede.
That said, they are constantly left terribly exposed by the midfield which really doesn't help matters and makes them look worse than they are. I think it's just symptomatic of how fragile we are as a team. We don't score nearly enough goals, which ramps up the pressure on the back line to not concede.
I don't think it's a case of mental weakness TBH. Skrtel hasn't suddenly become a different player from the one who matched Dogbreath kick for kick back in the day, and Agger's always the first on the scene if anything kicks off on the pitch. They're under more or less constant pressure these days because there's precious little in front of them to relieve that pressure, so it's pretty much bound to be the case that they'll make a greater number of mistakes. Get the overall balance of the side right and their performance will benefit more than anybody else's.
It's great we've had another clean sheet, that's 8 in the last 15 according to the commentary tonight..... but we shipped 6 against Villa and Stoke, so let's not pretend all is right because it isn't. I think it's as much to do with the open system we play as anything. Just remember, the last five games have pretty much been against the dregs of the Premiership and we've still shipped more than one a game on average (or 6 against 2 midtable sides). There's alot of work to be done, we've got three of the best sides in the Premiership up in our next four league games.
We could have done with throwing him on against Stoke, he would have done more than Lucas did and would have given us some aerial strength at both ends of the pitch.
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