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N'Gog & Pacheco - Echo Opinion

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Frogfish

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Blood Red: David Ngog and Dani Pacheco have part to play in Liverpool FC’s future
Jul 31 2010 by Dominic King, Liverpool Echo

Scorer of both goals in Skopje on Thursday night as Liverpool eased past FC Rabotnicki, the Frenchman built on the encouraging start he has made to pre-season with his best performance of the summer.

Nonchalant in taking his first, clinical in rifling home his second, Ngog gave the impression he has spent time working on his game, as the movement he showed to reach Martin Kelly's pinpoint cross – feinting to go forward before peeling off his marker – was exemplary.

Similar to Lucas, Ngog has been a player who certain sections of supporters have only wanted to concentrate on finding negatives; as Lucas suffered because he was thrust into the position vacated by Xabi Alonso, so Ngog was derided because there was no Torres.

Now it is obvious the 21-year-old has much to learn – Daniel Agger made that point after the win in Macedonia – but he is not a player who will end up falling into a bracket reserved for failed strikers Sean Dundee, Erik Meijer and, dare we say, Robbie Keane.

He scored eight times last season and had he been English, there would have been a clamour for Ngog to go to the World Cup; the more he plays, the better he will become and his frame is definitely starting to fill out.

With France overhauling the squad that performed so disastrously in South Africa – Thierry Henry is retired, Nicolas Anelka has been exiled and Sidney Govou best days are behind him – it would not be a huge surprise if Ngog becomes a fixture with Les Bleus in the next 12 months.

What role he has to play under Hodgson remains to be seen but the Parisian has done his chances no harm in recent weeks and his new manager has absolutely no intention of letting Ngog depart to West Bromwich Albion.

Similar sentiments apply to Pacheco.

He has set the Under-19 European Championships alight and has been scoring for fun in a Spanish team that has oozed quality, bamboozling their opponents with that rhythmic passing game.

Real Sociedad want to take Pacheco back to La Liga but it would be a huge shame if the 19-year-old left because he felt frustrated; there might not be much of Pacheco but he is big on heart, has great talent and, just as importantly, is classed as homegrown this year.

Losing Torres would be a shattering blow but, in some ways, it is just as vital to hang on to Ngog and Pacheco; young goalscorers are few and far between and if they can continue their development on Merseyside, Liverpool will be all the better for it.
 
I'm far from convinced N'Gog can make it as a top striker, however if his wages are low and he keeps on making some improvement (and makes the France squad) then his value should increase too.

Pacheco looks an absolute star in the making, small or not, and I'd be absolutely gutted if we were to lose him. He should be an integral part of the first team squad this season, sink or swim time.
 
Also, a poster on RAWK mentioned that Suso was sent home early and told to come back later to train with the seniors. I've only seen highlights but there seems to be a lot of positivity about this kids potential.
 
[quote author=keniget link=topic=41216.msg1145903#msg1145903 date=1280565227]
Also, a poster on RAWK mentioned that Suso was sent home early and told to come back later to train with the seniors. I've only seen highlights but there seems to be a lot of positivity about this kids potential.
[/quote]

didn't even know we had signed Suso, just checked out this interview which is very posotive about him, although the comparison with Riera is not the best...

http://www.goal.com/en/news/12/spain/2009/06/22/1340422/exclusive-liverpool-have-signed-a-jewel-in-suso-cadiz-youth
 
I don't think N'Gog really has to be a top striker - he just needs to be a good one.

He's got some skill on the ball, decent finishing instincts and the physical frame to be a success. If he can work on his strength and improve his game outside the box, he'll be a good player.
 
[quote author=keniget link=topic=41216.msg1145903#msg1145903 date=1280565227]
Also, a poster on RAWK mentioned that Suso was sent home early and told to come back later to train with the seniors. I've only seen highlights but there seems to be a lot of positivity about this kids potential.
[/quote]

I beg your pardon, but who is Suso?
 
I believe he plays a more Xavi (or Guti if we use the comparison in the article) type role for us in the middle of the park, so I wouldn't focus on the Riera comparisons.
 
I've been a fan of N'Gog but I think it is ludicrous to suggest that if he was English there would have been a clamour to take him to the World Cup. Not true.
 
He played centrally in a John McMahon side against Wrexham last week. Looked pretty tidy. Good eye for a pass, and good range too. Toni Silva also looked promising.
 
I don't mind N'gog and think he gets some unwarranted stick at times. I wouldn't have him as first choice back up striker at this moment in time, probably 3rd, but he does at least score a decent amount of goals.
 
I dont think he's very good, but he does try very hard and he can score goals.

HIs commitment level is very good even if the talent is lacking; which is the main reason I dislike Babel who's the complete reverse in many ways.
 
As 3rd/4th striker he'd be great, half the stick he got was because he was back up to Torres. Torres is worth £70m and N'Gog is worth £5m (and cost 1.5m), so he does get unwarranted stick.

I'd be happy to see him and Pacheco stay and continue to ply their trade, but this is a big season for both.
 
Agreed on all counts.

I think the roblem though is that whilst Ngog is a decent 3rd/4th striker and Pacheco is very promising, neither are good enough (yet) to cover for Torres when he's out or even play with him in 442.

Which leaves Kuyt.

Despite having loads of strikers, we probably still need to get in a quality 2nd striker.

And I don't really buy the idea that a top striker wont want to sit on the bench, not when the main striker is Torres..that person WILL get games.
 
Anyone making the step up to fill in for Torres or Gerrard is going to fall short. The difference is that we can sometimes get away with someone filling in for Gerrard and get a result. The same can't be said for Torres because he is our primary goal threat. Ngog was thrown in the deep end and sometimes didn't inspire. Nevertheless he still got us crucial goals. That he didn't crack is testament to his mental toughness. He looks like he worked on his physic and is going to improve with game time.

It would be easy to cash in on him but the cash for another striker would be for short-term gain that does nothing for our future and would sent the wrong message to the youngsters on the fringes. Ngog's involvement will give the other young players something to aim for. Pacheco must be given a chance. 20-30 minute cameos in the Premiership and much more in Cup games. Nothing develops a player like actual competitive games and Dani has shown enough to warrant a squad place.

We mustn't lose sight of the bigger picture. Our bleak financial situation should be a stark reminder that our young players are the future of the team.
 
[quote author=RolandG link=topic=41216.msg1145951#msg1145951 date=1280572395]
Anyone making the step up to fill in for Torres or Gerrard is going to fall short. The difference is that we can sometimes get away with someone filling in for Gerrard and get a result. The same can't be said for Torres because he is our primary goal threat. Ngog was thrown in the deep end and sometimes didn't inspire. Nevertheless he still got us crucial goals. That he didn't crack is testament to his mental toughness. He looks like he worked on his physic and is going to improve with game time.

It would be easy to cash in on him but the cash for another striker would be for short-term gain that does nothing for our future and would sent the wrong message to the youngsters on the fringes. Ngog's involvement will give the other young players something to aim for. Pacheco must be given a chance. 20-30 minute cameos in the Premiership and much more in Cup games. Nothing develops a player like actual competitive games and Dani has shown enough to warrant a squad place.

We mustn't lose sight of the bigger picture. Our bleak financial situation should be a stark reminder that our young players are the future of the team.
[/quote]

To a degree they should be anyway, something that's often lost sight of nowadays.
 
[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=41216.msg1145941#msg1145941 date=1280570726]
Agreed on all counts.

I think the roblem though is that whilst Ngog is a decent 3rd/4th striker and Pacheco is very promising, neither are good enough (yet) to cover for Torres when he's out or even play with him in 442.

Which leaves Kuyt.

Despite having loads of strikers, we probably still need to get in a quality 2nd striker.

And I don't really buy the idea that a top striker wont want to sit on the bench, not when the main striker is Torres..that person WILL get games.
[/quote]

Jovanovic can cover that. I'm not saying it wouldn't be nice to sign more quality, but I do think we have higher priorities elsewhere.
 
I would say that assuming signing a left back is in the works, more firepower up front is the top priority.
We know little about the Serb's qualities and goal threat at this early stage and going into another season banking on Torres not getting injured is not wise.
 
[quote author=Frogfish link=topic=41216.msg1145895#msg1145895 date=1280563751]


He scored eight times last season and had he been English, there would have been a clamour for Ngog to go to the World Cup

[/quote]

No there wouldn't you bellend
 
[quote author=Wilko link=topic=41216.msg1146016#msg1146016 date=1280585007]
I would say that assuming signing a left back is in the works, more firepower up front is the top priority.
We know little about the Serb's qualities and goal threat at this early stage and going into another season banking on Torres not getting injured is not wise.
[/quote]

Disagree. A good DM is next on the list IMO, Lucas' huffing and puffing about taking over that role notwithstanding. Looking to a Serbian international who was also wanted by Real seems less of a risk to me than not replacing the protection Masher has given our defence.
 
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=41216.msg1146023#msg1146023 date=1280585923]
[quote author=Frogfish link=topic=41216.msg1145895#msg1145895 date=1280563751]


He scored eight times last season and had he been English, there would have been a clamour for Ngog to go to the World Cup

[/quote]

No there wouldn't you bellend
[/quote]

A quote from who ? Not my comment.
 
He's 21 and got some ability .

I actually do feel sorry for him... he was made to play the "Torres" role with Gerrard miss-firing behind him in the supporting role.

Whatwe have is a decent young player, who needs game time, but also not to carry the weight ofthe entire teams expectations on his shoulders.

The only probel is, I think he's not asuited to the 4-2-3-1 we play. As part of a more traditional 4-4-2 witha partner sharing the load, so as he's not always leading the line... I think he ha mer

Also... I'm prety sure he's still classified as U21 this season, after which he classified as homegrown.. which means he's worth a premium in the league.
 
[quote author=keniget link=topic=41216.msg1146142#msg1146142 date=1280611181]
I don't think N'Gog will be classified as a homegrown player.
[/quote]

I think he qualifies. He turned 21 in January, which means he's classified as being an U21 for the 10/11 season, just.

That means he's have completed 3 seasons at the club by the start of the 11/12 season, classified as U21, which would mean he can be counted as home grown.
 
He joined us at the age of 19 I think and players need to be registered with a club for three seasons prior to their 21st birthday.
 
BBC are reporting that Malaga are interested in Pacheco too
 
[quote author=Dee link=topic=41216.msg1148568#msg1148568 date=1280997979]
BBC are reporting that Malaga are interested in Pacheco too
[/quote]

After his performances in the UEFA U19s you would expect a lot of interest in him from Spanish sides. However I think he'll be a part of our 1st team squad this season.
 
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