Newcastle

[Halmeister]

Apart from the massive chances we missed ya?

Shelvey's miss? What else? The rest were half chances. And in any case, we are shit because we consistently miss "massive chances". Ergo, we're shit.

 

[singlerider]

I didn't think we were poor, I think in the first half we had them on the ropes, but as Vlad said, it's pointless without end product and it's sort of ironic that we scored from being more direct.

I agree with your assessments of those players though SR, Allen gave the ball away alot, easy passes too most of the time. Enrique, aside from 'that' punt, constantly fucked up going forward.

Tbh I didn't think we were poor either. Like you say, the first half we utterly dominated them for the 1st 20 mins or so, and looked comfortable for the rest up until the goal going in, which saw the heads drop.

Second half we came out quick again, and I think we a little unlucky in the late stages that Jonjo didn't have a goal in him, but overall we were a little ineffectual and I think guilty of playing as a bunch of individuals at times, rather than putting in a team performance.

Suso and Sterling were definitely guilty of it. Suarez too, but he gets a pass on it because A) he's fucking ace and B) no-one else around is doing shit C) he's our only hope. Think Gerrard had a very quiet game and needed to be a little more authoritative. I'd say there just wasn't really enough imagination in the centre of the park and too much reliance on Suarez to be magic really

 

[Wizardry]

We're fucking shite. Some of the optimism in here is ridiculous and unwarranted. "If we win against Newcastle we'll be...." Pack it in.

Without that Suarez goal, which was out of nowhere and magical, we would have lost 1-0. I'm certain of that. We cannot break teams down for shit. And that's not going to change any time soon. One man team.

Is this a wind up??

I can't figure out what game some of you were watching - I kid you not. One of the posts read "pretty slow, turgid stuff from us" and I thought I'd come into the wrong thread.

We ripped Newcastle a new one from multiple angles; 60% possession across the 90 minutes is unbelievable. You all know how much I hate possession stats dating back to Rafa's approach of holding the ball for long periods in our own half but here it's a valid stat. Why? Cause most of that 60% was tearing them to pieces.

They had one shot on target (and scored). We had at least a dozen. Say all you like about it being a special goal from us - and it was astonishing - but that was about the only chance we didn't deserve to score. How Shelvey missed two of his chances was unbelievable. Sterling took an age for a gilt edged chance.

We ripped a pretty good team to pieces in open play but yet again the final tap in eluded us. That doesn't come from a "one man team"; that comes from a team which is playing well, confident in what they're doing and bloody good at it. The thing they're not good at - and consequently not confident in doing - is tapping the ball across the line.

As for the comments on Gerrard; he was great IMO. His shooting was charged down but from the start he showed the intent to be that goal menace he was a season or two ago. It's no surprise he was getting charged down since every player in the world knows you don't let Gerrard shoot. As long as he continues to show that intent it takes a bit of attention away from other players who will have more room. The way he was chasing back in the last 10 minutes when they had a break also removes any concerns of fitness.

For years we've been crying out for a team that would go at the opposition to try and win the game. We're doing that now and I loved the fact that at 1-1 we went at them even harder. Rodgers was prepared to risk a defeat in order to get the victory. I liked that immensely.

I'm not 100% convinced on him as I've said before but I loved that attitude and he can only coach the team to create chances which we did. The lay-off for Shelvey would have been scored by Salif Diao - you create chances like that you're entitled to expect 999 of a 1,000 being scored. That Shelvey missed the "one" shouldn't reflect on the team performance as a whole - which was excellent for the most part.

PS. I do agree with the concern during that 2 minute period following their wonder goal; as a team our heads dropped and Gerrard was as guilty as anyone. That said, given the number of times we've dominated and outplayed teams only to lose has to affect your psyche at some point.

 

[mark1975]

Don't sound surprised Wiz, Hal litters every thread with the same bullshit.

 

[Halmeister]

Haha wow.

Everything is rosy then. Nevermind.

 

[Halmeister]

Right, I'll go through that post Wizardry as you put a lot of time and effort into it.

1. The possession stats are irrelevant, you're right, if you do nothing with them. That 60% will have been greatly exaggerated by the sending off and the last 15 minutes Newcastle pretty much surrendered possession.

2. They didn't have only one shot on target. And in any case, they scored their chance, a sign of a good team. Something we consistently fail to do.

3. I wouldn't say we ripped them apart, we played reasonably well, without constructing any golden opportunities to score. Besides the Suarez goal out of nowhere, and the Shelvey miss. Which was also set up by Suarez. Anything good on an attacking front comes from Suarez. He IS the only player that can consistently create anything. That's a one man team if you ask me. It's the same problem we've had since the days of Torres, Gerrard and Owen etc before him. It's been going on for years and we can't snap out of it. If Suarez doesn't play well we lack any attacking edge. We were lucky he played well against Newcastle, and we still only got a draw.

4. I don't disagree about Gerrard. He played well.

5. You didn't really mention anything about this, but it's just occurred to me. Every time Newcastle attacked we looked vulnerable. They had oceans of space to run into, and if they had any more conviction, they could have easily scored another one or two goals on the counter attack.


Mark, or anybody else, can call it bullshit but it's all true and there are many other posters, established ones, who have voiced the same concerns as me. But you wouldn't say it's bullshit to them. Fair enough if you think everything is fine and we're playing well, but we're largely toothless. In my opinion.

 

[Fabio]

I kind if agree hal

 

[Halmeister]

BULLSHIT!!!

 

[LeTallecWiz]

I raise your bullshit by 2 stink bombs, and a partridge in a pear tree.

 

[keniget]

Last I checked we went 1-0 down and were it not for Suarez producing a few moments of magic, we'd have lost with a whimper.

Ripping teams apart = winning with ease.

 

[Farkmaster]

The statement that we are largely toothless is just a incontrovertible fact.

I guess it's a question of whether you think we are creating many chances and not scoring them, or just not creating chances or scoring the few we get.

It's a fascinating debate about why precisely we are shit. The solution is the same as it was to be this summer, when we contrived to make the problem worse by getting rid of a striker.

 

[Halmeister]

The statement that we are largely toothless is just a incontrovertible fact.

I guess it's a question of whether you think we are creating many chances and not scoring them, or just not creating chances or scoring the few we get.

It's a fascinating debate about why precisely we are shit. The solution is the same as it was to be this summer, when we contrived to make the problem worse by getting rid of a striker.

Haha true.

Either way we're not very good.

 

[Wizardry]

Right, I'll go through that post Wizardry as you put a lot of time and effort into it.

1. The possession stats are irrelevant, you're right, if you do nothing with them. That 60% will have been greatly exaggerated by the sending off and the last 15 minutes Newcastle pretty much surrendered possession.

Actually, the possession was 56% at half time and would have been higher except for the goal against run of play. You're right, the stat would have been boosted a little by the last 10 minutes but from the time Suarez put it in the net there was clearly only one team looking for the win - which is something I've missed in LFC teams for a number of years.

2. They didn't have only one shot on target. And in any case, they scored their chance, a sign of a good team. Something we consistently fail to do.

Well, they'd only had one on target in the first half (the goal) and they didn't have much else in the 2nd half - maybe they had two for the match. As for the sign of a good team - I think the standard description is "jammy", no? Certainly if the mancs do that they're "jammy bastards", same with the Chavs etc. Apparently when it happens to us, though, it's a sign the opposition is a good team.
3. I wouldn't say we ripped them apart, we played reasonably well, without constructing any golden opportunities to score. Besides the Suarez goal out of nowhere, and the Shelvey miss. Which was also set up by Suarez. Anything good on an attacking front comes from Suarez. He IS the only player that can consistently create anything. That's a one man team if you ask me. It's the same problem we've had since the days of Torres, Gerrard and Owen etc before him. It's been going on for years and we can't snap out of it. If Suarez doesn't play well we lack any attacking edge. We were lucky he played well against Newcastle, and we still only got a draw.

I haven't gone back to look at the game again but, even though I don't think we have a recognized goal poacher in the team, I felt like it was a matter of time. We were hitting them from all angles for the first 25 minutes; had a dull period for 10 minutes; back on top and they scored utterly against the run of play. 2nd half we came out invigorated again; got the equaliser and fashioned 3 absolutely clear cut chances in the 10 minutes after that.

Without Suarez we lack the goal scoring, cutting edge not an attacking edge. We don't sit back on half way and wait for the opposition to get ready before moving forward one square at a time like we're playing chess; the whole team has an attacking focus - a drive to move the ball forward and that's what we were doing. We attack from the middle, from out wide and we get in behind more times this season than in the last 4 years with Rafa. Not meant to be an attack on Rafa just an observation that there is a far greater attacking intent now than then.

4. I don't disagree about Gerrard. He played well.

Not a reply you but to those who questioned that Gerrard posed a goal scoring threat. Steven Gerrard within 5 yards of the area from any angle is a goal scoring threat. Hence the desperation Newcastle showed to close him down.

5. You didn't really mention anything about this, but it's just occurred to me. Every time Newcastle attacked we looked vulnerable. They had oceans of space to run into, and if they had any more conviction, they could have easily scored another one or two goals on the counter attack.

I don't think they had oceans of space to run into at all other than in the last 20 minutes when we were striving for a winner. That was the only time they looked to have much space and they were still wary of putting many forward. I will say that they looked likely to get some joy every time they ran at Wisdom; a great prospect he may be but he looks out of his depth and out of position to me.


Mark, or anybody else, can call it bullshit but it's all true and there are many other posters, established ones, who have voiced the same concerns as me. But you wouldn't say it's bullshit to them. Fair enough if you think everything is fine and we're playing well, but we're largely toothless. In my opinion.

I personally wouldn't have any problem saying what I've said to anyone on here. I thought right through the thread there was a lot of negativity that didn't have a lot of basis. Same against the bitters; both teams are good teams whether we recognize that fact or not. We didn't dominate Everton away but we gave a team that spanked the mancs a torrid match at their place.

A couple of years ago we'd have been in awe if we played this way; difference is we had Torres to finish in those days and a captain who was deployed further forward. In my opinion we're playing good football now; we have to learn to ice the cake but the more difficult part of the project, IMO, is falling into place quite well.

 

[Wizardry]

Last I checked we went 1-0 down and were it not for Suarez producing a few moments of magic, we'd have lost with a whimper.

Ripping teams apart = winning with ease.

Well then the the mancs have a habit of winning titles while never winning with ease; ditto the Chavs under Jose.

I don't agree with it at all. I accept that we're toothless in some respects; same as we were toothless prior to Torres arriving. But ripping teams apart doesn't mean winning with ease. I remember the world media (including almost all of KT) claiming that Barca had ripped us apart at their place under GH - final score was 1-1.

Barca looked awsome but it took a few years for them to add the goals that accurately reflected their general superiority. I hope it doesn't take us that long but if the end result is where Barca got to then I'm ok with that.