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Liverpool dancing in the dark

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ILD

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Good article from Dion Fanning.

Liverpool dancing in the dark without guidance of Benitez

By Dion Fanning

Sunday June 06 2010

We are drifting on a sea of garbage accompanied only by hopeless bullshitters. It was no surprise that the departure of Rafael Benitez brought out the worst in what can loosely be described as his enemies.

Benitez' problem, and the reason his inspired reign as Liverpool's manager had to end, was that his ability to ignore the opinions of people who didn't matter had been irreversibly damaged by the battles he was forced -- and occasionally elected -- to fight.

In his mind, they were all his enemies in the end. But they were out to get him.

Sky Sports love talking to a man with nothing to say and they found an egregious bunch in the wake of Benitez' departure, speaking and thinking in clichés, led, as always, by Jamie Redknapp.

Next season promised more paranoia and more desperate justification. Much of what Benitez achieved -- the European Cup, the re-establishment of Liverpool as a force in Europe, the legacy (for a few more weeks, anyway) of world-class players -- didn't need to be justified, it was understood by those who needed to understand. At his peak, Benitez knew this. Recently, like Gerard Houllier, he had started to list his achievements and it wasn't going to end well.

A couple of weeks ago, Benitez walked onto the stage at the Liverpool Empire and danced beside the cast of a play about Istanbul. It wasn't ill-advised, it was fatally ill-advised. It may have been his low point as Liverpool manager.

It pointed to the insanity to come, but things got a lot worse for Liverpool last week when they rustled up a deal to get rid of the one man who understood the games that were being played. Benitez left listening to the same bullshit he had to put up with for six years. Now it was even more serious.

There is a fierce refusal by most commentators to deal with the complexities of life. They see the Liverpool story as another football story, they talk about the list of contenders with a straight face as they open up the market to include Guus Hiddink or bemoan the timing that now rules Jose Mourinho out.

They refuse to see what is happening. This is the slow dismantling of a football club. The one man who would put up a fight as Liverpool's prize assets were being sold is gone. The least surprising piece of official information last week was that Liverpool were in no hurry to make an appointment. They could save a couple of months' wages if they delay. More significantly, if there is no manager, there is no man to ask if he might see some of the money for the sale of the players Benitez improved while at the club.

He was, they said, fired for finishing in seventh place. Many suggested that the squad Benitez left behind is worse than the one he inherited. Two words should shoot down that argument: Salif Diao. Still debating, take another two: El-Hadji Diouf. What about a mixture of words and numbers: £14m for Djibril Cisse. Bruno Cheyrou and Anthony le Tallec were there when Benitez arrived. I haven't mentioned Djimi Traore. Benitez won the European Cup with him.

He competed too, not all the time, but above Liverpool's capabilities given their wage bill -- the fifth highest in the league -- which is linked inextricably to how a club performs. Benitez wasn't allowed to gather a squad. Craig Bellamy and Luis Garcia went so Fernando Torres could come in. He made a mess of his relationship with Xabi Alonso but still managed to triple the price for the player and the money went on servicing debt.

On Wednesday night, it was suggested that the reason for Benitez' departure was the need to placate the star players. When the star players got to hear about this, they were understandably upset that they were the device being used to justify the change.

There are enough suckers out there with short-term memories to sign up to that. By Friday, Torres, Javier Mascherano and Steven Gerrard were said to be leaving anyway. Benitez had lost the dressing-room but the dressing-room was up for sale.

This is the reality. If Torres and Mascherano stay, there is an argument for getting rid of Benitez. If they go, there isn't. Redknapp suggested Liverpool didn't trust him to spend £30m. Perhaps Tom Hicks and George Gillett just didn't trust the builders either and that's why there's no new stadium.

The fans knew this and they were pilloried for it too. It turns out that the media needs the fickleness of supporters because they don't know what to do but mock when it's not there.

There is no logical reason to appoint Roy Hodgson. He had a fine record prior to last season but Benitez had a better one. Liverpool are now judging managers on the basis of one season, good or bad. In another time, Sam Allardyce would have been the leading contender.

One report may have got to the truth about the eagerness to appoint Hodgson, a thoroughly decent man. "Hodgson, in contrast, is seen as a manager who will concentrate more on sorting out the many problems Liverpool face on the pitch rather than being involved in disrupting things behind the scenes."

Things are going so well behind the scenes that it will be a relief for Liverpool fans to know that their manager will not be disrupting them. Benitez had become caught up in the feuds. But at Liverpool, more than nearly any other club, it would be hard not to come to the conclusion that there was somebody else to blame.

Hicks and Gillett wanted to fire him before he even signed Torres, his outstanding purchase. But he stayed and fought them. He turned Gerrard into a truly effective player until last season when Gerrard turned in on himself and became a liability, not the man carrying the team as most pundits declared.

Benitez never gave him a break, he never gave anyone a break. He was Lieutenant Columbo and there was always one more thing.

He was always mad. But the good ones are all mad in their inability to see reason and another's point of view as things that have any bearing on how they do their job. "Like all madmen," Tolstoy said, "I thought everyone was mad except myself."

Benitez had good reason to think it. Working for Hicks and Gillett, he encountered, not only insanity, but greed and duplicity too. By the time he did his desperate jig at the Liverpool Empire, it was over. Liverpool are now dancing in the dark.
 
Many on here we're quick to celebrate his departure but at least this article shows the possible drawbacks to it.
He did put the fight up to the owners who are our biggest problem.
 
[quote author=ILD link=topic=40507.msg1115138#msg1115138 date=1275930598]
Many on here we're quick to celebrate his departure but at least this article shows the possible drawbacks to it.
He did put the fight up to the owners who are our biggest problem.
[/quote]

Yeah I agree that some may see it that way, and it may be true to a certain extent. I just don't agree with it, that's all.

I don't think that Benitez is the only thing stopping us plunging into mediocrity, quite the opposite. He was part of the reason we were heading that way in the first place. I don't think he's this holy beacon of light fighting off Hicks, Gilette, dragons etc. A lot of the arguments and in-fighting were petty on Rafa's part too, and we could have done without them as a club.

Also, I think it would be a bad move for Hick's and Gilette to sell Torres, Gerrard and Mascherano as it devalues their already ailing project here. If they sell those 3 there would be no way that they'd get the £600m-£800m that they're looking for. To suggest that Benitez is the only thing keeping them here is quite lazy in my opinion.
 
[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=40507.msg1115141#msg1115141 date=1275931179]
[quote author=ILD link=topic=40507.msg1115138#msg1115138 date=1275930598]
Many on here we're quick to celebrate his departure but at least this article shows the possible drawbacks to it.
He did put the fight up to the owners who are our biggest problem.
[/quote]

Yeah I agree that some may see it that way, and it may be true to a certain extent. I just don't agree with it, that's all.

I don't think that Benitez is the only thing stopping us plunging into mediocrity, quite the opposite. He was part of the reason we were heading that way in the first place. I don't think he's this holy beacon of light fighting off Hicks, Gilette, dragons etc. A lot of the arguments and in-fighting were petty on Rafa's part too, and we could have done without them as a club.

Also, I think it would be a bad move for Hick's and Gilette to sell Torres, Gerrard and Mascherano as it devalues their already ailing project here. If they sell those 3 there would be no way that they'd get the £600m-£800m that they're looking for. To suggest that Benitez is the only thing keeping them here is quite lazy in my opinion.
[/quote]

I agree with a lot of your post there Hal. However it is nice to see an article for a change that shows the other side of the story. That's all.
 
[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=40507.msg1115147#msg1115147 date=1275931900]
Dion Fanning is a cunt.

That is all.
[/quote]

Why Jon?

He is pointing out the owners as the biggest evil at the club, which they obviously are.

You mightn't agree with him but 'Cunt' is a bit extreme.
 
[quote author=ILD link=topic=40507.msg1115148#msg1115148 date=1275932168]
[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=40507.msg1115141#msg1115141 date=1275931179]
[quote author=ILD link=topic=40507.msg1115138#msg1115138 date=1275930598]
Many on here we're quick to celebrate his departure but at least this article shows the possible drawbacks to it.
He did put the fight up to the owners who are our biggest problem.
[/quote]

Yeah I agree that some may see it that way, and it may be true to a certain extent. I just don't agree with it, that's all.

I don't think that Benitez is the only thing stopping us plunging into mediocrity, quite the opposite. He was part of the reason we were heading that way in the first place. I don't think he's this holy beacon of light fighting off Hicks, Gilette, dragons etc. A lot of the arguments and in-fighting were petty on Rafa's part too, and we could have done without them as a club.

Also, I think it would be a bad move for Hick's and Gilette to sell Torres, Gerrard and Mascherano as it devalues their already ailing project here. If they sell those 3 there would be no way that they'd get the £600m-£800m that they're looking for. To suggest that Benitez is the only thing keeping them here is quite lazy in my opinion.
[/quote]

I agree with a lot of your post there Hal. However it is nice to see an article for a change that shows the other side of the story. That's all.
[/quote]

Yeah fair enough. I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle. When things were getting out of hand the other day in the Benitez sacked thread, somebody eventually called for a bit of calm and rectified things. I forget who it was, but they basically pointed out that there is a middle ground.

Benitez isn't shit and isn't the cause of all our problems, but he has contributed in our downfall. Both sides are right in the argument to an extent, but it tends to boil over and result in shouting and name calling and two polarised opinions. It's not cut and dry and there definately is two sides to this that hold some weight.
 
[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=40507.msg1115151#msg1115151 date=1275932747]
Judge Jules.
[/quote]

Of course. The wise old goat. 😛
 
The thing that I find ridiculous about that article, and that view in general is summed up in this sentence:

The one man who would put up a fight as Liverpool's prize assets were being sold is gone

As though any new manager brought in is going to say "You know what, I'm *so* grateful for this job, that actually I don't mind - go ahead and sell all my best players and make sure that I don't see a penny of it, I'll make do, the honour will be enough".

As fucking if.

Any self-respecting and sentient manager is going to fight tooth and nail to hang on to their best players and if that simply isn't a possibility, then they're going to fight tooth and nail to have as much of the fee as possible to fund their own transfers. To suggest otherwise is fucking idiotic, and to presume that Rafa is the only manager willing or capable of that is equally so.

Short of hiring a fucking amoeba, or plucking some numbnuts off the street who happens to be a Liverpool fan and is still overwhelmed by how lucky they are to be there, it's not going to happen.

To suggest otherwise is, as Foxy has pointed out, the mark of a cunt.

I don't even know who this Dion Fanning is, but if he writes this stuff and expects anybody to take him seriously then he really is one. As if Kenny wouldn't work to make sure there was a budget for whoever comes in, as if he's gonna stand by and let players be sold off and not try and create a pot to replace them.

The man's a chump
 
[quote author=singlerider link=topic=40507.msg1115156#msg1115156 date=1275933416]
The thing that I find ridiculous about that article, and that view in general is summed up in this sentence:

The one man who would put up a fight as Liverpool's prize assets were being sold is gone

As though any new manager brought in is going to say "You know what, I'm *so* grateful for this job, that actually I don't mind - go ahead and sell all my best players and make sure that I don't see a penny of it, I'll make do, the honour will be enough".

As fucking if.

Any self-respecting and sentient manager is going to fight tooth and nail to hang on to their best players and if that simply isn't a possibility, then they're going to fight tooth and nail to have as much of the fee as possible to fund their own transfers. To suggest otherwise is fucking idiotic, and to presume that Rafa is the only manager willing or capable of that is equally so.

Short of hiring a fucking amoeba, or plucking some numbnuts off the street who happens to be a Liverpool fan and is still overwhelmed by how lucky they are to be there, it's not going to happen.

To suggest otherwise is, as Foxy has pointed out, the mark of a cunt.

I don't even know who this Dion Fanning is, but if he writes this stuff and expects anybody to take him seriously then he really is one. As if Kenny wouldn't work to make sure there was a budget for whoever comes in, as if he's gonna stand by and let players be sold off and not try and create a pot to replace them.

The man's a chump
[/quote]

I would imagine that one of the first things that a candidate is going to ask Kenny is if Gerrard, Torres and Macherano, Reina are staying.

A negative answer will probably thin the candidates out to the possibles rather than probables.

I can't see Kenny being unprepared for that question when he approaches candidates.

As for Fanning and his article, well, it's just another kneejerk article; I suspect there'll be many more before the dust settles.
 
[quote author=singlerider link=topic=40507.msg1115156#msg1115156 date=1275933416]
The thing that I find ridiculous about that article, and that view in general is summed up in this sentence:

The one man who would put up a fight as Liverpool's prize assets were being sold is gone

As though any new manager brought in is going to say "You know what, I'm *so* grateful for this job, that actually I don't mind - go ahead and sell all my best players and make sure that I don't see a penny of it, I'll make do, the honour will be enough".

As fucking if.

Any self-respecting and sentient manager is going to fight tooth and nail to hang on to their best players and if that simply isn't a possibility, then they're going to fight tooth and nail to have as much of the fee as possible to fund their own transfers. To suggest otherwise is fucking idiotic, and to presume that Rafa is the only manager willing or capable of that is equally so.

Short of hiring a fucking amoeba, or plucking some numbnuts off the street who happens to be a Liverpool fan and is still overwhelmed by how lucky they are to be there, it's not going to happen.

To suggest otherwise is, as Foxy has pointed out, the mark of a cunt.

I don't even know who this Dion Fanning is, but if he writes this stuff and expects anybody to take him seriously then he really is one. As if Kenny wouldn't work to make sure there was a budget for whoever comes in, as if he's gonna stand by and let players be sold off and not try and create a pot to replace them.

The man's a chump
[/quote]

Did Rafa have anything in his contract that gave him final say on transfers? I remember talk of it around the time he was requesting full control. The Rafamaniacs and certain scare mongeres are under the impression the the owners might try to hire a yes man who will put up little fight to the possible sale of star players. But like you said, Kenny is there to help ensure that scary scenario doesn't become a reality.
 
[quote author=jexykrodic link=topic=40507.msg1115161#msg1115161 date=1275934891]
[quote author=singlerider link=topic=40507.msg1115156#msg1115156 date=1275933416]
The thing that I find ridiculous about that article, and that view in general is summed up in this sentence:

The one man who would put up a fight as Liverpool's prize assets were being sold is gone

As though any new manager brought in is going to say "You know what, I'm *so* grateful for this job, that actually I don't mind - go ahead and sell all my best players and make sure that I don't see a penny of it, I'll make do, the honour will be enough".

As fucking if.

Any self-respecting and sentient manager is going to fight tooth and nail to hang on to their best players and if that simply isn't a possibility, then they're going to fight tooth and nail to have as much of the fee as possible to fund their own transfers. To suggest otherwise is fucking idiotic, and to presume that Rafa is the only manager willing or capable of that is equally so.

Short of hiring a fucking amoeba, or plucking some numbnuts off the street who happens to be a Liverpool fan and is still overwhelmed by how lucky they are to be there, it's not going to happen.

To suggest otherwise is, as Foxy has pointed out, the mark of a cunt.

I don't even know who this Dion Fanning is, but if he writes this stuff and expects anybody to take him seriously then he really is one. As if Kenny wouldn't work to make sure there was a budget for whoever comes in, as if he's gonna stand by and let players be sold off and not try and create a pot to replace them.

The man's a chump
[/quote]

I would imagine that one of the first things that a candidate is going to ask Kenny is if Gerrard, Torres and Macherano, Reina are staying.

A negative answer will probably thin the candidates out to the possibles rather than probables.

I can't see Kenny being unprepared for that question when he approaches candidates.

As for Fanning and his article, well, it's just another kneejerk article; I suspect there'll be many more before the dust settles.
[/quote]

Another horrible scenario would be that one of our 'star' players being sold before a manager is appointed.
 
That article is awful! For starters he dismisses everyone who disagrees as having nothing to say. Well what qualifies him exactly? He's as one sided as anyone else, just the other way.

then using Diao, Diouf, Cheyrou, Traore etc as proof the squad was shit. How about Lucas, Aquilani, Babel, Riera, Insua, Degen? all still here. Not to mention Keane, Dossena, Josemi, Morientes. Moved on maybe but still bloody awful.

The idea that Benitez made Gerrard good doesn't really work for me either. he was already an improving young player and already captain.

Benitez deserves praise for what he has done certainly but he's not been amazing.
 
[quote author=Molbystwin link=topic=40507.msg1115252#msg1115252 date=1275941770]
Good article.
[/quote]

Ha.
 
[quote author=Loch Ness Monster link=topic=40507.msg1115254#msg1115254 date=1275941854]
Shit article. I think Dion is a girls name too, he sure writes like one.
[/quote]


070427_diondublin_420.jpg



Hello, Mum?
Are you positive I'm a bloke
 
[quote author=ILD link=topic=40507.msg1115124#msg1115124 date=1275928854]
Sky Sports love talking to a man with nothing to say
[/quote]

As opposed to Rafa who of course always had lots of interesting things to say when interviewed. :🙂
 
[quote author=Portly link=topic=40507.msg1115341#msg1115341 date=1275952638]
[quote author=ILD link=topic=40507.msg1115124#msg1115124 date=1275928854]
Sky Sports love talking to a man with nothing to say
[/quote]

As opposed to Rafa who of course always had lots of interesting things to say when interviewed. :🙂
[/quote]

For a minute there I thought I wrote the above but had no recollection of it.

People need to stop quoting the article. Haha.
 
[quote author=the count link=topic=40507.msg1115261#msg1115261 date=1275942311]
[quote author=Loch Ness Monster link=topic=40507.msg1115254#msg1115254 date=1275941854]
Shit article. I think Dion is a girls name too, he sure writes like one.
[/quote]


070427_diondublin_420.jpg



Hello, Mum?
Are you positive I'm a bloke
[/quote]

You seen the size of his cock?

[size=6pt]Me neither[/size]
 
I think he has a few points actually:
Benitez did improve our squad.

Benitez did fight for the best of the club (not perhaps in the best way but anyway).

Liverpool ARE dancing in the dark and I fear we´ll end up with a poor manager...think about it: Who would take the job under current circumstances? The club is up for sale, the owners doesn´t like each other, new directors pulling strings for their personal benfits and a divided squad. I don´t think a top manager would take that risk.
 
Regardless of what fanning says, and its generally not of interest to me as he talks a lot of snout, the main thing is that regardless of owners, squads or managers the main thing is last season was a shambles and ANY manager who would have been in charge should have rightly gotten the sack!
 
[quote author=The Slugmonster link=topic=40507.msg1115514#msg1115514 date=1275995619]
Regardless of what fanning says, and its generally not of interest to me as he talks a lot of snout, the main thing is that regardless of owners, squads or managers the main thing is last season was a shambles and ANY manager who would have been in charge should have rightly gotten the sack!
[/quote]

^^

What he said.
 
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