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Klopp defends the midfield

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rurikbird

rurikbird

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Jurgen Klopp has hit back at suggestions that there's something “missing” from his Liverpool side as he insisted: “If people cannot enjoy our football then I really can't help them.”

The midweek defeat to Paris Saint-Germain reignited concerns about a lack of creativity from midfield. Liverpool mustered a combined total of just five shots on target and didn't score a single goal from open play in their three Champions League away group games. But with the Reds unbeaten domestically and enjoying their best start to a top-flight season since 1990 Klopp says the criticism is unfair ahead of Sunday's Merseyside derby at Anfield.

“Yes, in specific games we can say that (the midfield didn't link to the attack sufficiently), but to be honest for me it is quite strange,” Klopp said. “When everything is brilliant and we score goals you always ask about defending and how can we fix that? “We fixed that kind of and it always happens that the first step is it costs you a bit of fluency and creativity. That is a completely normal thing. If someone would think about it for one second they would see it is clear, it is logical. “Now, when we fix that, I can't say in the first moment to the boys: 'But that's not enough offensively.' That would be crazy. We still have to develop.

“There were a few games last season, when we were really flying and the opponent collapsed like Watford here, then we had the big games like Roma and Man City, where were these games in the league? But I get constantly confronted with the question – something is missing. What's that? Of course it could be better but it is not because of one player. We are creative. I don't know how many goals we've scored but we've had many more chances. Creating is not a problem. You could say finishing is the problem, whatever you want.

“In the end, in the games we won we were always the better side. That's pretty rare. Not one lucky game when it was 'wow, how did that happen?' “I get that you have to write about things, no problem, but write it and don't ask me about it because I'm not interested about it, I can't answer it. I don't tell my boys to do one thing and then tell them publicly to do another thing.”

Klopp reverted back to a midfield trio of Jordan Henderson, Gini Wijnaldum and James Milner in Paris. Summer signings Naby Keita and Fabinho were both overlooked with Liverpool's lack of cutting edge providing a reminder of how much they have missed Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain since he suffered a serious knee injury back in April.

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“Bringing one player in would change everything? That is bull**** and you all know that. One player doesn't change everything,” Klopp said. “Oxlade-Chamberlain would have changed that game? I love this boy to bits but would he have changed this game? We could have changed the game had we started differently. Then 2-0 wouldn't have happened and the pressure on them would have been even bigger. That was the problem of the game, not being creative or whatever.”

Having analysed the game closely, Klopp believes Liverpool's performance at the Parc des Princes was unfairly judged in some quarters. He's adamant that the Reds could hold their heads high after recovering from a wretched start.

“PSG are one of the best teams in the world. They didn't look like it because we caused them a lot of problems,” he said. "The two goals they scored were good play from individual quality and pressure. They did it. After that, they had counter attacks and defended better than they have in all games for the last five or six years. And with more passion. They were high-fiving after winning a challenge against Mo (Salah) and stuff like that. We had to chase the game and it is not that easy then to be creative. If Barcelona plays in that game they are not creative. We had to fight back. It was not a game for easy football.

“You try to do it but tell me one game in the past where you saw a team that was 2-0 down against an opponent with the quality of Paris and the opponent struck back and won 7-2? It will never happen. The start of the game was not good. I didn't like it, that's the truth. I told the boys the intensity level was not how I wanted it to be but after that we were in the game. Pressing was much better, counter pressing was really good, formation was really good, being compact was really good and we won balls back like crazy. The people there were whistling. It was not a brilliant game but it was a big fight and we lost it 2-1. And after that you ask me about being creative in midfield?”
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Much of the discussion around that central area concerns Keita and Fabinho. When you spend £95million on two midfielders questions are bound to be asked when they don't play regularly.
“I get that,” Klopp said. Keita, who was out for a month with a hamstring problem, hasn't started a Premier League game since mid-September, while Fabinho has been on the bench since the international break. With Henderson suspended, opportunity could knock for at least one of them against Everton. Klopp reiterated his belief that both new boys will be a success at Anfield in the long-term.

“Same time next year we will all talk Naby and Fabinho like we talked last year about Oxlade,” he added. “In the beginning, it was not there and we always asked: 'What about Oxlade-Chamberlain?' Maybe you did not ask that much because nobody expected that much, they thought he was too expensive, then he came back and he was ready. I get it, 100%. But that's really not our problem."
 
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And this is Barney Ronay take on LFC's midfield:

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At the end of Liverpool’s defeat in Paris on Wednesday night Jürgen Klopp and Thomas Tuchel offered up a weirdly self-referential round of press conferences deep in the bowels of the damp concrete hulk that is the Parc des Princes. First Klopp appeared and said he was not going to single out Neymar for diving or Marco Verratti for a heavy tackle because then people would say he was singling out Neymar and Verratti – all the while still managing to single out Neymar and Verratti. Then Tuchel said he was not going to respond because he knows how these things work and to respond would be to enter into Klopp’s narrative of distraction in defeat. All the while still choosing to enter Klopp’s narrative of distraction in defeat – but only by pointing out that it was, in fact, a narrative of distraction in defeat.

Heavy metal passive-aggressive post-modern press conferences. Pull up a chair, media studies students. And all this just to drive some straightforward headlines about a 2-1 loss that owed a lot to Paris Saint-Germain’s craft and intensity, but which also flagged up the snags in Liverpool’s midfield that will be a concern for this evolving team. No doubt Klopp will continue to ponder this in those hours when he is not sitting in front of a piece of cardboard covered in adverts. But there is an issue here, and a point of confusion between method and personnel on nights such as these.

Liverpool began with the same flat, muscular Milner-Henderson-Wijnaldum axis that has now started all three away defeats in Europe. It is a midfield that looks perfect for last season’s system, the high-pressing, hard-running game that creates chances out of orderly disorder. Faced with a midfield of greater ball-playing craft, they instead sat deeper and went toe-to-toe in the finer arts, looking at times like a man trying to conduct a concert orchestra with a policeman’s baton. Sometimes you really are better off just hitting someone over the head with it.

“Un Victoire Capitale! PSG s’impose sur Liverpool” was the headline in one Paris daily on Thursday morning . And for all the distracting noises about gamesmanship, PSG did impose themselves in that period when the game was won, Verratti, Neymar, Marquinhos and Ángel Di María dominating the ball and playing in a system that flattered their own best attributes. Successful teams are sometimes compared to a fine wine, something that becomes more nuanced with age. This Klopp-era Liverpool have gone further, changing from a bottle of something fizzy and fun and likely to leave you with an exhilarating headache the next day into a thicker, more restrained vintage, lacking a little in the high notes.

This is, of course, part of the plan. Klopp has spoken at length about his efforts to create a team that can win by scoring just once rather than playing always in the eye of the hurricane. It may work out. The season is long and attritional. But there is also the danger that a midfield of workers and runners makes sense when your full-backs and front three are tearing around creating potent havoc; but less so when there is a requirement to make chances in a more patient, structured fashion. There is also no doubt that they have missed Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain’s dynamism, his more vertical movements with the ball. Philippe Coutinho’s skill and vision in those areas has not been replaced. Naby Keïta will presumably settle. Fabinho seems an unnecessary layer of additional muscle.

At the end of which £90m has been spent on re-gearing the midfield for this more measured Klopp team, but it still looks more suited to scrapping and covering behind the old tearaway attack. And yes, quite a lot of this comes back to Jordan Henderson, who played as he always does in Paris: wholeheartedly, retaining his intensity to the last, but fraught with the same limitations.

Henderson is a strange player in many ways. He has played 260 games now, been a fixture in the two best Liverpool teams of the last 13 years and been picked and prized by Klopp, Brendan Rodgers, Kenny Dalglish, Gareth Southgate, Roy Hodgson and Fabio Capello. For all that, he remains a player whose qualities are more obvious to those who watch the team from the inside than to those who see just the outline details of match day. Clearly those managers will also see Henderson’s technical limitations. This is a midfielder with one goal in his last 97 games, despite spending a fair amount of each game around the opposition goal. He seems physically unable to turn with the ball in a tight space, meaning every time he takes it with his back to goal he passes backwards, a powerful contrast with most high-class central midfielders, for whom it is an essential skill to take the ball and turn in one movement.

In Paris Henderson was bypassed repeatedly in the first half by Neymar, the last with a dismissive veering run that just said, yes, I can move that bit quicker than you. To Henderson’s credit he kept going right to the end, dragging his team along with him, influence growing as time ticked down. But it is not hard to see why Klopp would rather turn the discussion to PSG’s players falling over a lot (which they did) than linger on an unbalanced midfield that seems caught between stick or twist, dogs of the high-press asked to perform a more mannered role against opponents better tailored to the task.

Liverpool could still have emerged with a draw. Sadio Mané dropped deep to good effect and bridged the midfield creativity gap at times. Andrew Robertson was fearless as ever. And in mitigation of the midfield effort, Roberto Firmino’s poor form hardly helps. That ability to drop back, hook the ball out of the air, capoeira-style, and find players around him on the turn is a powerful creative weapon. Right now he just looks a little low on zip.

There are some positives in defeat. In a way the result simplifies the final act against Napoli two weeks from now. Liverpool will have to win 1–0, or handsomely. This is surely the moment for a tactical reboot of last season’s blitz football, a game to play with fire not ice in the head; and in a style that might just leave the midfield looking a little happier in its own clothes.
 
Barney Ronay is spot on.

Whilst people have been bemoaning our lack of goals (IMO due in the greater part to a toning down of the high press, which last season suited our front three to perfection) then this sentence epitomises what I was saying yesterday in reply to Brendan : This Klopp-era Liverpool have gone further, changing from a bottle of something fizzy and fun and likely to leave you with an exhilarating headache the next day into a thicker, more restrained vintage, lacking a little in the high notes.
 
Part of the problem seems to be tactical. When a manager sticks rigidly to a system his opponents will set a trap for him. PSG clearly set up to play a midfield 4 with Neymar dropping off the front. This gave them a numerical advantage and allowed them to play neat 1-2s through our midfield. Henderson in particular was notable for the number of times he got drawn into a 2 v 1 scenario and easily bypassed. This should have been apparrent to Klopp after about 5 mins and he should have reshuffled by dropping either Mane or Firmino further back to shackle Veratti, something that really only happened at half time. So PSG had free reign for 45 mins and by the time we adjusted the damage was already done.

I do agree with the premise that Milner- Henderson-Wjinaldum is a midfield 3 thats geared towards high octane pressing rather than being a creative fulcrum for the team. Its like Klopp changed the tactics for this season in anticipation of a Fabinho-Keita-Ox mindfield but then didnt play them and forgot that his current midfield cant play that way. Particularly when he played Gomez at RB so there was really no right sided gap that needed plugging.
 
I'm not sure that "a tactical reboot of last season’s blitz football" that Ronay wants to see will happen anytime soon – Klopp can't just tell the players to throw out everything they worked on this season and go back to last season. He will make tweaks and adjustments little by little, as he always does, but I don't expect that we can suddenly revert back to the old style, even if he wants to.

This situation is a bit contradictory, isn't it? On one hand, we can plainly see that something is missing in attack, on the other the results in the league have been good and we're still scoring a very respectable 2 goals per game, while conceding A LOT less. But yet on the other hand, all 3 away performances in the CL have been fairly atrocious and this will surely reflect in the league too unless things improve. And yet Klopp is right that we are controlling games more than we did last season.

I think last year we were like his Borussia Dortmund: counter-attacking, swashbuckling and easy on the eye. Now he's trying to turn us into a Bayern-like machine: one that grinds down opponents with consistency, quality and a variety of threats. It's probably the right direction to move if we want to win a title and it's working for the most part, but we need inspiration to come from somewhere. Firmino is one factor – when he's not playing well, it affects everything since he's so central to the style. But these things happen – even star players go through barren periods. But equally, if not more importantly, we need one or two of our midfielders to be a creative force the way first Coutinho and then Ox were last season.
 
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I can't see us going back to the way we played last season. It was amazing to watch and great viewing but all out attack and leaking 3 goals in games isn't going to win you trophies. We've had to sacrifice our attack to make us more robust defensively. I just don't think we have all the right personnel in midfield to do it. Also feel firmino is being wasted in his role now.
 
rurikbird said:
Now he's trying to turn us into a Bayern-like machine: one that grinds down opponents with consistency, quality and a variety of threats. It's probably the right direction to move if we want to win a title and it's working for the most part, but we need inspiration to come from somewhere. Firmino is one factor – when he's not playing well, it affects everything since he's so central to the style. But these things happen – even star players go through barren periods. But equally, if not more importantly, we need one or two of our midfielders to be a creative force the way first Coutinho and then Ox were last season.
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That's the problem in a nutshell though, isn't it?

That description suits Man City who can play through you with the likes of Silva, De Bruyne or get in behind with Sane, Sterling et al. And if one gets injured or is out of form, they've got one or two more they can bring in.

We don't have a variety of options. The choice is basically limited to how and when we use Shaqiri.

As you've pointed out, we're far too reliant on one player - Firmino - to bring things together and that's just not sustainable over time.

I hope Fabinho proves himself to be a great signing but right now he's looking like a luxury signing for this season.
 
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Yep, exactly. We're aiming for Bayern or City style (which is the most reliable way to win a league these days), but still don't quite have comparable quality in depth. Although things might look a lot better once Keita starts performing and Ox is back. However I think we will still need a striker who can back up or challenge Firmino and also quality competition for Robertson.

Fabinho should be fine in the long run. Almost every high-profile Brazilian looked sluggish and sloppy in the first few months in EPL: Fernandinho, Willian, Firmino etc. He's not a new Viera, but he will be a useful player for us, I'm certain of it.
 
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Frogfish said:
Barney Ronay is spot on.

Whilst people have been bemoaning our lack of goals (IMO due in the greater part to a toning down of the high press, which last season suited our front three to perfection) then this sentence epitomises what I was saying yesterday in reply to Brendan : This Klopp-era Liverpool have gone further, changing from a bottle of something fizzy and fun and likely to leave you with an exhilarating headache the next day into a thicker, more restrained vintage, lacking a little in the high notes.
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No
 
rurikbird said:
Fabinho should be fine in the long run.
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Yeah, hopefully... but as you imply, the plan for him appears to be a long-term one. Perhaps there were very good reasons for bringing him in now... but in the context of this season, it's hard not to wonder whether that 40M could've bought us another attacking midfielder or forward that we really appear to need.
 
Glen C said:
No he hasn't.
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Just watch how he looks up and passes forward with deft, incision and purpose. He is better defensively than Hendo. He seems like he has an engine. He just needs to get some consistency which i suspect will come soon, and Hendo is out of the starting 11.
 
I'd like Klopp to admit his mistakes. I love the guy and wouldn't swap him for anyone, but I think we can all see that playing with a sideways midfield fucks us over, and Lovren should be playing for Fenerbache.
 
Woland said:
I'd like Klopp to admit his mistakes. I love the guy and wouldn't swap him for anyone, but I think we can all see that playing with a sideways midfield fucks us over, and Lovren should be playing for Fenerbache.
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Why should he give the hacks that satisfaction when he hasn't found a solution to the problems, yet. I recall his support of Lovren, Matip and AN Other at centre-half, Karius and, before him, Mignolet at goalkeeper. The fact that we spent the best part of a £100 million in midfield, and was going for Fekir as well earlier on, is evidence enough that he knows there is a problem (a problem, by the way, first laid bare on that fateful night in Kiev.)

I reckon he'll get it right in that part of the field, too, as he has with the back and goalkeeping.
 
Woland said:
I'd like Klopp to admit his mistakes. I love the guy and wouldn't swap him for anyone, but I think we can all see that playing with a sideways midfield fucks us over, and Lovren should be playing for Fenerbache.
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What did Fenerbache do to deserve that ?
 
KopRed said:
Just watch how he looks up and passes forward with deft, incision and purpose. He is better defensively than Hendo. He seems like he has an engine. He just needs to get some consistency which i suspect will come soon, and Hendo is out of the starting 11.
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Those are exactly the same things that I noticed with him - you are correct, but the issue at the moment is that his timing is out of sync with the pace of the game - but all the things you have noticed - I have also noticed.
 
Red Bird said:
Why should he give the hacks that satisfaction when he hasn't found a solution to the problems, yet. I recall his support of Lovren, Matip and AN Other at centre-half, Karius and, before him, Mignolet at goalkeeper. The fact that we spent the best part of a £100 million in midfield, and was going for Fekir as well earlier on, is evidence enough that he knows there is a problem (a problem, by the way, first laid bare on that fateful night in Kiev.)

I reckon he'll get it right in that part of the field, too, as he has with the back and goalkeeping.
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What solution? He didn't lose anyone. He only strengthened. Did anyone apart from the keeper start against Paris who we didn't have last season when we would have smashed then off the park? He's titting about and it looks like it's just for the sake of it.
 
Isn't is objectively correct? He didn't sell to buy this summer. Any change in form or tactics is on him. Like I say, I'm totally pro Klopp and hope he stays here for a zillion years, but these changes haven't been forced upon him, they've been made by him
 
Woland said:
Isn't is objectively correct? He didn't sell to buy this summer. Any change in form or tactics is on him. Like I say, I'm totally pro Klopp and hope he stays here for a zillion years, but these changes haven't been forced upon him, they've been made by him
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Read his interview on Sky. Basically he said the team needed to evolve as we had been 'found out' and we needed a more mature style as well as tactical flexibility.
 
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