Jekyll-&-Hyde Naby

[rurikbird]

Like I wrote in the match thread, Klopp unquestionably did the right thing by leaving Naby on the pitch after that abysmal first half when every pundit at half-time was screaming for Hendo to be brought in. Naby wasn't the main problem of that performance (neither was Jota, as Klopp pointed out in the press-conference: "we had 11 problems in the 1st half") and in the 2nd half he was part of the solution.

All that said, there is something of a pattern I'm noticing with Keita. Do you remember that 3:3 away game vs Sevilla in Champions League a few years ago – when we raced to an early 3:0 lead and then couldn't control the game and it finished 3:3 (something similar happened in the home game as well). That game featured the peak-of-their-powers front 3 of Firmino, Mane and Salah + Coutinho in midfield – and it seemed like that lineup could either destroy the opposition defence or be destroyed with nothing in between. When Coutinho left that winter and Milner took his place, we started playing with much more consistency, perhaps losing some flair in attack, but with much better balance in midfield that allowed us to outrun and outwork any opposition.

I'm starting to think that Keita has a similar effect on our team as Coutinho when he played in midfield. It's a bit see-saw: all or nothing. Atletico away: scored a sumptuous goal and helped us to a 2:0 lead, then couldn't defend for his life and substituted in the first half. City in the cup – started on fire, Pep changed his tactics and suddenly he was lost in the 2nd half and was substituted. Even the United 5:0 game where he was so efficient in attack and useful in counter-pressing, we allowed United to cut through our midfield and it felt like a see-saw game where they just didn't take their chances. Based on his peak performance level, Keita should be in our first 11 in every final and every big game remaining – yet he is also the one player who you don't fully trust to problem-solve during the game.

Let's hope tonight's game is a useful step in his development as with Klopp's help in half-time he did manage to improve together with the rest of his teammates. But it's just interesting to see that after a few years of us consistently grinding teams down, the gung-ho Liverpool circa 2017 is suddenly making a reappearance.

 

[juniormember]

I'd pick Hendo ahead of him every single time (for the big games).
Would love to see another top midfielder fighting for that position (and Fabinho's) next season. We can't rely on Naby.

 

[Frogfish]

What I've seen with Keita is that when the team is performing well he plays to a higher standard than Hendo. He's clearly technically a far better player. However when we are under the cosh he can't be relied upon - even though his pressing and tackling is again at a higher level to Hendo's. Hendo is more athletic, aggressive and has more stamina.

How you choose which to start depends on the opposition, the anticipated tactics of the opposition and our possession percentage. Klopp seems like he is starting to prefer Keita as Hendo ages.

 

[Woland]

He's fucking shite

 

[Mystic]

If our side are mentality monsters, Naby is clearly a mentality munchkin, he folds like wet paper as soon as the team comes under the kosh. Shame, he's got obvious ability, and strangely he can be very cool in high pressure situations, but as soon as the occasions too big, or the team really struggles, he turns to absolute turd. Very definition of a fairweather player.

 

[Woland]

I hope we can get some money for him in the summer and we buy an actual footballer.

 

[rubans]

If our side are mentality monsters, Naby is clearly a mentality munchkin, he folds like wet paper as soon as the team comes under the kosh. Shame, he's got obvious ability, and strangely he can be very cool in high pressure situations, but as soon as the occasions too big, or the team really struggles, he turns to absolute turd. Very definition of a fairweather player.

He didn’t fold last night in the second half though? He was a lot better like the rest of them.
Apart from Madrid away, can’t remember too many big games where he’s let us down when selected.

 

[localny]

What did he do differently in the second half you think?

 

[rubans]

What did he do differently in the second half you think?

I think it looked like more of as a team we focussed more on dropping back and taking our time in the second half. He was rushed in first half but Thiago was worse and kept trying outtie balls to left. Diaz’s intro helped on the left too so the midfield didn’t have to push so high but that’s just how I saw it.

 

[RedStar]

I'd pick Hendo ahead of him every single time (for the big games).
Would love to see another top midfielder fighting for that position (and Fabinho's) next season. We can't rely on Naby.

Hendo seems to be missing an awful lot of games lately, even big important ones. Is he carrying long term injury that needs to be managed?

 

[peekay]

I hope we can get some money for him in the summer and we buy an actual footballer.

He has been better the past few months, but I cant help think that he is playing for a new contract or transfer to a big club. The Keita of the past few months is worth keeping on but would prefer someone better.

 

[Frogfish]

What did he do differently in the second half you think?

If the whole team plays shit (they did) then it's going to be impossible for one player to stand out anyway - in the second everyone upped their game.

 

[ibromurph]

What I've seen with Keita is that when the team is performing well he plays to a higher standard than Hendo. He's clearly technically a far better player. However when we are under the cosh he can't be relied upon - even though his pressing and tackling is again at a higher level to Hendo's. Hendo is more athletic, aggressive and has more stamina.

How you choose which to start depends on the opposition, the anticipated tactics of the opposition and our possession percentage. Klopp seems like he is starting to prefer Keita as Hendo ages.

Agreed although Keita's lack of consistency might be why we're also looking at this Tchoumenni kid. Who seems be a hybrid of Jordan's athleticism, Fabs tackling and Keita's running with the ball.

 

[ibromurph]

2 points I do want to make with Keita:

1) When it's a technical game, where we have comfortable possession of the ball and he can think, he has FAR better receiving/dribbling skills than Henderson between the lines and therefore we're able to connect the midfield and attack far better, and we actually score well worked technical/combination or through-ball goals. With Henderson playing, it always feel like we're having to rely more on the front 3 doing magic, and us outworking the opposition as opposed to necessarily outplaying them (even if we can do both); so whilst we are more defensively secure with Hendo, chances of 3 or 4 goals are probably less.

2) If it's a physical end to end game, the guy can get lost in the pace and makes really bad decisions under pressure at times (at both ends). He also provides a lot worse support for our weakest defender. Teams often attack our right hand side (because of Trent), and Henderson is FAR better giving cover for Trent (see Arsenal game) than Naby. Henderson, surprisingly (after all the fanfare, and Kante comparisons, when we signed him) has much better athleticism than Naby too and is able to get up and down the pitch far quicker.

 

[mom]

Keita is decent. But inconsistent and injury prone. He would smash it in a less physical and slightly slower league.

 

[doctor_mac]

Keita is pretty fucking good for a man in his mid 40s.

 

[King Binny]

[article]By the end, Alisson was trying to waste time. Sadio Mané was listlessly dribbling the ball into the corner in an attempt to burn away a few more seconds. Deep into injury time Naby Keïta started rolling around on the turf in apparent agony. Was it a cruciate? A broken leg? A debilitating muscle tear that would put him out for the season? Happily, as a victorious Keïta disappeared into the embrace of his teammates just a few seconds later, we have to conclude that he may just survive the night.

Curiously, given his famously forthright views on teams adopting cynical tactics in an attempt to win games, Jürgen Klopp had very little to say about any of this afterwards. But then, perhaps it was understandable that aesthetics would be the last thing on his mind at Villa Park. This was the sort of win you have to extract like one of your own teeth, the sort of win that almost feels too debasing to truly celebrate, the sort of win you pull out on the day your title rivals sign Erling Haaland for next season.

But it was a quietly crucial win too, for no other reason than because there was no real alternative. Liverpool know deep down that they will probably finish second in this year’s Premier League, and more painfully they know they probably deserve to. Those seven dropped points over Christmas and new year, an entire month without a league win, have likely done for them. Hope is the most precious commodity of all to retain at a time like this. But there are two major finals still to be played and this is no time to start feeling sorry for themselves, as it briefly appeared as if they might.

You could even see the fatigue and lethargy in Klopp’s face as he did his post-match interviews: a coach of boundless energy whose tank looks like it has almost run dry. More than ever you sense Liverpool are trying to ration their efforts, spread their resources, chug gamely towards the end of a season that will encompass 63 games in all competitions. The omissions of Andy Robertson, Mohamed Salah and Thiago Alcântara from the starting lineup appeared telling. The injury to Fabinho, who limped off before half-time with a hamstring injury, will stretch them still further.

And so, in a strange and scruffy game, disarmingly open in parts, Liverpool were forced to rely on their unlikelier stalwarts. Kostas Tsimikas had a wildly eclectic game at left-back, a juddering high-wire act that generated several misplaced passes, at least two clear positional errors and some crucial tackles and blocks. But his electric surges up the left flank, his willingness to ping the early cross, his restless sense of dramatic tension, were exactly what a tired Liverpool required here after the ice bath of going an early goal down.

What was most notable about Douglas Luiz’s third-minute finish was that there were probably about five or six individual duels that led to it – crosses that could have been stopped, tackles or headers that could have been won – and Liverpool lost them all. Villa were lavish in those opening minutes, even after Joël Matip bundled home a quick equaliser, and so what Liverpool really needed was someone who could break the game up, upset Villa’s rhythm and impose one of his own. What they needed, above all, was Keïta.

Those of you who may not have been watching too closely probably wrote Keïta off as damaged goods some years ago: probably during one of the many injury layoffs that threatened to curtail his Liverpool career before it had really begun. Even when Keïta managed to work his way to full fitness he found opportunities hard to come by in a midfield increasingly shaped by the metronomic Fabinho and Thiago, a midfield more concerned with controlling games rather than rattling them open.

The problem was, in a way, that Keïta was signed to play in a Liverpool midfield that no longer existed. At RB Leipzig, where he played until 2018, he was an expansive, marauding presence, as comfortable dribbling the ball 50 yards through the centre as burgling goals with late runs into the penalty area. The problem was that by the time Keïta arrived, there was no longer much call for any of that. Liverpool were already beginning to pivot away from the sort of concussive, vertical midfield play that he was best at.

And yet, four years into his time at Anfield, Keïta is quietly having his best season at the club so far: most appearances, most goals, a pivotal role in Liverpool’s run to the Champions League final. To a large extent this is a question of timing and fitness. But there also seems to be a recognition from Klopp that there are certain games where Liverpool need a little extra unpredictability in the middle: the snapping tackle, the enterprising dribble, the quick 50-yard long ball into space. Keïta is the man you call on when you’re worried things are just getting a little tired, a little stale.

So it was fitting that he came to the fore on Tuesday night, in a game where Liverpool were in danger of submitting to their own languor. The limbs are screaming with tiredness, the minds are cooked, there’s a cup final on Saturday and effectively three more after that. Depleted, disheartened, but somehow still fighting: in a way, the story of Keïta is also the story of Liverpool’s season.[/article]

 

[Hansern]

Should have scored though.

 

[Bradley]

Anyone who doesn't think that little niggle he had at the end of the game is a season ender is a damn fool.

 

[Frogfish]

... Keïta is quietly having his best season at the club so far: most appearances, most goals, a pivotal role in Liverpool’s run to the Champions League final. To a large extent this is a question of timing and fitness. But there also seems to be a recognition from Klopp that there are certain games where Liverpool need a little extra unpredictability in the middle: the snapping tackle, the enterprising dribble, the quick 50-yard long ball into space. Keïta is the man you call on when you’re worried things are just getting a little tired, a little stale.

So it was fitting that he came to the fore on Tuesday night, in a game where Liverpool were in danger of submitting to their own languor. The limbs are screaming with tiredness, the minds are cooked, there’s a cup final on Saturday and effectively three more after that. Depleted, disheartened, but somehow still fighting: in a way, the story of Keïta is also the story of Liverpool’s season.[/article]

Still not good enough for half this forum. Bar that miss he had a very good game in Midfield even though Jones was AWOL and Fabs having his worst game for months.

 

[Frogfish]

Anyone who doesn't think that little niggle he had at the end of the game is a season ender is a damn fool.

It might be as far as his wife is concerned though.

 

[Fabio]

I wish he would fuck off & Hyde

 

[The Nomad]

Still not good enough for half this forum. Bar that miss he had a very good game in Midfield even though Jones was AWOL and Fabs having his worst game for months.

I didn't like Keitas performance yesterday.

Outside of the miss there was at least twice where he ran into a cul-de-sac and lost possession cheaply. A bad tackle on another day could have seen an over eager VAR send him off (it was a yellow, he got nothing).

And like Jones, generally slowed the play down. There was at least once where he smashed it back to Allison when Matip was a simple ten yard pass.

 

[MomoWASright]

Is there a correlation between Keita playing and all of our midfielders having bad games?

 

[Frogfish]

I didn't like Keitas performance yesterday.

Outside of the miss there was at least twice where he ran into a cul-de-sac and lost possession cheaply. A bad tackle on another day could have seen an over eager VAR send him off (it was a yellow, he got nothing).

And like Jones, generally slowed the play down. There was at least once where he smashed it back to Allison when Matip was a simple ten yard pass.

So I guess the stats mean nothing then? Every single player does things in a match that could be better/different or that observers view differently depending on their perspective. How about forwards picking out a teammate in a better position when shooting which usually people moan about at the time and then forget?

You gave Fabs a 4, Jones a 4 and Naby Lad a 3. Seriously ? Just look at those stats above again. Some people on here skip past the good stuff as if it didn't happen and are focused on the mistakes (even if they weren't mistakes - like that back pass to Ali - conservative but not a mistake) above all else and fill the match thread (not talking about you) with verbal diarrhea but nary a word of praise (the reason I avoid it during the match because the thread rarely mirrors reality).

It's nice to see that some journos at least are not carrying that level of bias around with them. And not just any old journo in the article above but the excellent Jonathan Liew.

I'd like to see his performance reel from yesterday because he seemed to be doing a lot of work tackling, pressing and dribbling through their midfield. Do you have anything @King Binny ?

 

[Judge Jules]

If our side are mentality monsters, Naby is clearly a mentality munchkin, he folds like wet paper as soon as the team comes under the kosh. Shame, he's got obvious ability, and strangely he can be very cool in high pressure situations, but as soon as the occasions too big, or the team really struggles, he turns to absolute turd. Very definition of a fairweather player.

This. He's another Vlad Smicer - good enough but not strong enough, mentally or physically, for the power and pace of top level football in this country, not consistently enough anyway. What's the point if we can't rely on the best version of Naby appearing on a consistent basis?

 

[Fabio]

Confused why in the last few weeks Liew seems to be getting touted as excellent. Is it because he has written some nice things about us?

 

[keniget]

Confused why in the last few weeks Liew seems to be getting touted as excellent. Is it because he has written some nice things about us?

That's generally how it works...

 

[Frogfish]

Some media ratings for Keita vs Villa. Generally he falls in the middle of the pack with a few rating him higher and just a couple lower (deducting points for the potential sending off).

Echo 7/10 (lowest rating a 4 and highest an 8)
TIA 7/10 (lowest rating a 5 and highest an 9)
Express 5/10 (lowest rating a 4 and highest a 6)
Liverpool World 5/10 (lowest rating a 4 and highest a 7)
The Hard Tackle 6/10 (lowest rating a 4 and highest a 7)
Sky 6/10 (lowest rating a 4 and highest an 8)
Anfield Index 7/10 (lowest rating a 6 and highest a 7.5)
The Kop Times 6.5 / 10 (lowest rating a 3 and highest an 8.5)
BBC 6.84 (lowest rating a 4 and highest a 7.9)
Sofascore 7.3 (lowest rating a 6.5 and highest a 7.9)
WhoScored 7.53 (lowest rating a 6 and highest a 7.9)

 

[Woland]

It's the whole Lucas debate again. When you're watching someone playing badly but you get a constant stream of stats telling you they're playing well, they're not.