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Is Rafa the worst person possible in this current situation?

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gareth_thomas

Mr.
Member
Now.. i rate Rafa and am happy he is in charge.. BUT..

I have a few issues with his management and they start with his shite use of subs and inability to find decent attacking players but my biggest Rafa issue is his inability to instill confidence in his attacking players. Rafa's hardworking style and focus on perfection is an obvious detriment to a lot of players. Those who are true professionals have the ability to overcome the constant criticism and find the positives. The defensive players seem to thrive on only having to focus on being organised and standing in the right place at the right time .. However there are always those players that need a different approach. Babel and Morientes are good examples of players who should have taken the premiership by storm but looked like qtr of the player they used to be as their confidence was/is completely shot.

Now i would consider myself a relatively professional worker and i work in an industry where criticism and focus on improvement is paramount. During the good times most can take criticism fairly well and use it positively to improve performance.. during the bad times however criticism is sometimes very hard to swallow. This could be due to a combination of factors. One could be that there are much larger issues at hand that need to be addressed and the individual feeling somewhat targeted and blamed for the downturn in the organisations overall performance. Another could be due to an individuals insecurity and need for positive assurances

During difficult times i find myself getting extremely frustrated and unmotivated at criticism aimed towards me as i am in the belief that i am working harder and attempting to do everything correctly but am unable to do so due to the under performance of others.

Now.. without being in the dressing room with the players it can be argued that everything i write is speculation. However, from the quotes i have read from the manager and the players themselves and from the general information available to me i am aware that Rafa focuses heavily on pointing out what players do wrong and believes heavily in players focusing on positioning and the shape of the team.

Could this approach be the worst thing possible considering the current situation at the club? Many often use the cliche that Football is a simple game complicated by fools. We are now starting to see the confidence of our betters players decrease quite noticeably. So my question do you believe that Rafa has the ability to change his approach? and if he continues to use the same approach will it eventually come good?
 
[quote author=gareth_thomas link=topic=37913.msg1014341#msg1014341 date=1260850245]

Now.. i rate Rafa and am happy he is in charge.. BUT..

I have a few issues with his management and they start with his shite use of subs and inability to find decent attacking players but my biggest Rafa issue is his inability to instill confidence in his attacking players.

[/quote]

We scored more goals than any other team in Britain last year.
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37913.msg1014344#msg1014344 date=1260851188]
[quote author=gareth_thomas link=topic=37913.msg1014341#msg1014341 date=1260850245]

Now.. i rate Rafa and am happy he is in charge.. BUT..

I have a few issues with his management and they start with his shite use of subs and inability to find decent attacking players but my biggest Rafa issue is his inability to instill confidence in his attacking players.

[/quote]

We scored more goals than any other team in Britain last year.
[/quote]

You clearly arnt quite understanding the initial post.
 
[quote author=gareth_thomas link=topic=37913.msg1014345#msg1014345 date=1260851404]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37913.msg1014344#msg1014344 date=1260851188]
[quote author=gareth_thomas link=topic=37913.msg1014341#msg1014341 date=1260850245]

Now.. i rate Rafa and am happy he is in charge.. BUT..

I have a few issues with his management and they start with his shite use of subs and inability to find decent attacking players but my biggest Rafa issue is his inability to instill confidence in his attacking players.

[/quote]

We scored more goals than any other team in Britain last year.
[/quote]

You clearly arnt quite understanding the initial post.
[/quote]

Believe me, I did.

You're effectively criticising Rafa's style of play (especially in an attacking sense), his instructions to players (especially the attacking players) and the lack of confidence he places in them.

I'm telling you that he does all this, and we still score more goal than any other team in the land.

Do you see where your point falls down a little?
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37913.msg1014348#msg1014348 date=1260852122]
In fact, even this year at home, only Chelsea have scored more goals than us.
[/quote]

Ryan your being a prick. You can see the point he is making and are just being difficult for the sake it.

The point is he is not very good at motivating his players and never has been. It's something many on here have talked about over the years.

Wizardy, Keni to name just two.

When working with total pro's Rafa is fantastic but this confidence crisis shows the players are only human and need something to lift them out of it.

The question is whether Rafa has the ability to get that extra effort out of the lads to pull through this and get the confidence and results back on track.

Saying we've scored more goals than anyone else means f*ck all really when we look like conceding more than most too.

Who here felt confident after Arsenal equalised? Nobody that's who.

Rafa has got to get the team fighting again because against Arsenal we gave up at 1-1. All over the pitch.
 
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=37913.msg1014353#msg1014353 date=1260854747]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37913.msg1014348#msg1014348 date=1260852122]
In fact, even this year at home, only Chelsea have scored more goals than us.
[/quote]

Saying we've scored more goals than anyone else means f*ck all really when we look like conceding more than most too.

[/quote]

"my biggest Rafa issue is his inability to instill confidence in his attacking players"

That's Gareth's point, the one I've been replying to, and the discussion at hand here Dreamy.

Do keep up.

And stop dropping names of respected posters in the hope they'll come and bail you and your shitty argument out.
 
I don't agree with the attacking/defensive aspect that you've introduced into this perceived weakness. If our defense was as boring and structured and focused and detail oriented as it has been under most of his tenure, we'd be nowhere near our current position. What is most sapping to our confidence is that there's a sense that even if we go ahead in a game, we will always allow a team chances at goals that are no where near as hard work as the ones we labour to score.

The examples you use to prove how Rafa went wrong are bizarre. First, Morientez, a clear case of wrong age, wrong league, and then Babel. Babel is nowhere near deserving of being the freedom you suggest, and has failed again and again. It's completely unknowable how they'd have done under different management, but if I was to make a guess, I'd say the mistake made was to buy them in the first place.

The overreaching point in the piece though, regarding him just not being a very good motivator of individuals, I tend to agree that his mechanistic pursuit of perfection is ill suited to our current dismal form. Looking at the tape game after game must be some really fucking depressing viewing, I know I couldn't do it. Are we sure the injury nightmare we are coming out of wasn't at least in part self inflicted?
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37913.msg1014355#msg1014355 date=1260855142]
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=37913.msg1014353#msg1014353 date=1260854747]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37913.msg1014348#msg1014348 date=1260852122]
In fact, even this year at home, only Chelsea have scored more goals than us.
[/quote]

Saying we've scored more goals than anyone else means f*ck all really when we look like conceding more than most too.

[/quote]

"my biggest Rafa issue is his inability to instill confidence in his attacking players"

That's Gareth's point, the one I've been replying to, and the discussion at hand here Dreamy.

Do keep up.

And stop dropping names of respected posters in the hope they'll come and bail you and your shitty argument out.
[/quote]

I doubt either would want to bail me out and if you want to discuss the point then stop talking about last season as it has f*ck all to do with this season.

Last year we were top this year we are about to be overtaken by Brum.

Our attack is in a serious crisis and I doubt Rafa can pull us out of it.

We look void of ideas and have very little fight both come down to the manager.

Look at Utd, they lost Tevez and Ronaldo yet they still attack with the same purpose and style.
 
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=37913.msg1014357#msg1014357 date=1260856008]
I don't agree with the attacking/defensive aspect that you've introduced into this perceived weakness. If our defense was as boring and structured and focused and detail oriented as it has been under most of his tenure, we'd be nowhere near our current position. What is most sapping to our confidence is that there's a sense that even if we go ahead in a game, we will always allow a team chances at goals that are no where near as hard work as the ones we labour to score.

The examples you use to prove how Rafa went wrong are bizarre. First, Morientez, a clear case of wrong age, wrong league, and then Babel. Babel is nowhere near deserving of being the freedom you suggest, and has failed again and again. It's completely unknowable how they'd have done under different management, but if I was to make a guess, I'd say the mistake made was to buy them in the first place.

The overreaching point in the piece though, regarding him just not being a very good motivator of individuals, I tend to agree that his mechanistic pursuit of perfection is ill suited to our current dismal form. Looking at the tape game after game must be some really fucking depressing viewing, I know I couldn't do it. Are we sure the injury nightmare we are coming out of wasn't at least in part self inflicted?

Applause.
[/quote]
 
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=37913.msg1014370#msg1014370 date=1260857808]
Look at Utd, they lost Tevez and Ronaldo yet they still attack with the same purpose and style.
[/quote]

No they don't, they just haven't completely fallen apart in other aspects of the game. Our issues aren't predominantly attacking issues, though they are significant.
 
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=37913.msg1014374#msg1014374 date=1260858448]
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=37913.msg1014370#msg1014370 date=1260857808]
Look at Utd, they lost Tevez and Ronaldo yet they still attack with the same purpose and style.
[/quote]

No they don't, they just haven't completely fallen apart in other aspects of the game. Our issues aren't predominantly attacking issues, though they are significant.
[/quote]

I would say they do attack the smae way just they don't have the same quality which means the end product sometimes isn't as effective.

However with us, once Gerrard or Torres are missing our attacking flow and movement seems to come apart completely. It's almost like the players that step in haven't been thought our tactics or how we are set up in an attacking sense.

I agree our defensive problems are a massive concern this year but I really do think that much of this stems from a very weak midfield this season that often gets over ran. I really wish Gerrard was put back in there.

Anyway back to Rafa being able to motivate us to get out of this crisis of confidence, I don't see it happening. Perhaps if he let Sammy Lee give the lads a pep talk but I doubt that would help much either.

As I said our only hope is for Torres and Gerrard to stay fit and to lift the team by the boot laces. But if nothing else the first half of the season have shown up some glaring cracks in Rafa's managment style.

I'd dare say even the likes of MON would get more out of our squad minus Gerrard and Torres than Rafa does. It's shame because if he could add that motivational element to his locker there wouldn't be many to touch him.
 
By current situation do you mean the this season?

If so, Rafa's suitability to manage these kind of ridiculous lows doesn't really concern me as I hope this is the last time we experience one for a long long time. And prior to to this season, it's never been an issue, which is a truer reflection of the clubs standing.

[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=37913.msg1014375#msg1014375 date=1260858921]
However with us, once Gerrard or Torres are missing our attacking flow and movement seems to come apart completely. It's almost like the players that step in haven't been thought our tactics or how we are set up in an attacking sense.
[/quote]

I don't think that's the case to be honest. The rest of them just don't have the ability to play like that. Riera needs a lot of movement around him, Kuyt needs the space created by guys like Torres and Gerrard in attack and Lucas and Masher just don't have enough offensive qualities to make an impact.

The main and most damning accusation you can level at Rafa is that in all of his time here, he's only been able to sign one top class attacker in Torres. That's a pretty terrible record and he, along with the rest of us, is paying for it big time now.
 
I agree with Farky, Gareth has some points, but the two examples of attacking players becoming de-motivated are no the best to be honest.

The biggest issue with the attack is that when the Gerrard / Torres thing is unavailable or does not work , there is no plan B, we don't have anyone of the right quality to play two up front with Torres. I think he knows what a quality forward looks like though.

I also agree that Rafa's cold calculating aprroach to football does is not fantastically conducive to relationship building.
 
[quote author=Jack D Rips link=topic=37913.msg1014436#msg1014436 date=1260871055]
One of this mornings rags suggests Rafa is going to bid for Scott Parker.
[/quote]
Ay, it's in the thread from yesterday titled News.

regards
 
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=37913.msg1014445#msg1014445 date=1260871693]
[quote author=Jack D Rips link=topic=37913.msg1014436#msg1014436 date=1260871055]
One of this mornings rags suggests Rafa is going to bid for Scott Parker.
[/quote]
Ay, it's in the thread from yesterday titled News.

regards
[/quote]

Yeah I know that. I just thought it might have some relevance to the tone of this thread. Sorry if I was wrong.
 
[quote author=Jack D Rips link=topic=37913.msg1014455#msg1014455 date=1260872628]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=37913.msg1014445#msg1014445 date=1260871693]
[quote author=Jack D Rips link=topic=37913.msg1014436#msg1014436 date=1260871055]
One of this mornings rags suggests Rafa is going to bid for Scott Parker.
[/quote]
Ay, it's in the thread from yesterday titled News.

regards
[/quote]

Yeah I know that. I just thought it might have some relevance to the tone of this thread. Sorry if I was wrong.
[/quote]

Didn't say you were wrong old chap, just pointing it out to avoid two threads on the same thing, I get confused then as to which one I have posted in and end up posting the same thing in both
😉
regards
 
[quote author=Jack D Rips link=topic=37913.msg1014436#msg1014436 date=1260871055]
One of this mornings rags suggests Rafa is going to bid for Scott Parker.
[/quote]

I really like Parker but where does that leave Aquaman.
 
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=37913.msg1014865#msg1014865 date=1260918057]


Aquaman.
[/quote]

FFS.
 
[quote author=Juanito link=topic=37913.msg1014919#msg1014919 date=1260926730]
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=37913.msg1014865#msg1014865 date=1260918057]


Aquaman.
[/quote]

FFS.
[/quote]

?
 
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