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Irish FA set to take player eligibility dispute to CAS

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the count

SCM's least favourite muppet- There was a poll
Honorary Member
The Irish FA is set to go to the Court of Arbitration for Sport in an attempt to prevent more Northern Ireland-born players opting for the Republic.

The IFA move follows Everton player Shane Duffy's decision to declare for the Republic earlier this week.

Duffy had played for Northern Ireland up to Under-21 level and was included in the full squad last year.

Manchester United's Darron Gibson and Portsmouth's Marc Wilson have also switched allegiance in recent years.

Duffy's case differs from those of Gibson and Wilson in that the Everton player does have a parent or grandparent who was born in the Republic of Ireland.

The IFA acknowledges that under existing rules, Duffy is eligible to play for the Republic of Ireland.

However, the Northern Ireland governing body will argue that players such as Gibson, whose parents and grandparents were born in Northern Ireland, should not be allowed to declare for the Republic.

There are fears within the IFA that the player drain to the Republic could gather increasing speed.

The decision to take a case to the Lausanne-based Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS) was take at an IFA board meeting on Thursday evening.

An IFA statement acknowledged that the move was "an unusual step".

"The Association is keen to stress that it does not take this course of action lightly but in light of recent events and potential future issues, it believes it has no other choice regarding the resolution of player eligibility," added the statement.

"The current situation that exists puts the IFA at a clear disadvantage against all other 206 associations.

"The Association has worked hard on its 'football for all' programme being at the heart of everything we do and we spend a substantial amount of money on grassroots and youth international programmes and this must be protected for the good of football in NI."

The IFA has been at loggerheads in recent years with the Republic's governing body, the Football Association of Ireland (FAI), over the issue.

The Northern Ireland governing body was hopeful that the issue would be resolved at a Fifa meeting in December 2007 but that international gathering failed to clarify the issue.

At that time, Fifa spokesman Andreas Herren told BBC Sport:"If there is a real dispute...they will have to submit it to the Court of Arbitration."

More than two years on, the IFA is now set to go down that road although the FAI remains confident that the CAS will not change
the current position.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/irish/8538702.stm


Just wondering what people, especially the Norn Iron lads think of this..........

I suppose it depends on the reasons why players are choosing to declare for the ROI instead of N Ireland. If they are being tapped up" by the FAI then Northern football have every right to be pissed off. It certainly is within the bounds of possibility going on the FAI's past record of trawling for players with any Irish ancestry.

If it is for purely personal reasons then it becomes a lot more acceptable in my opinion. However if it is for professional reasons then it is making a bit of a mockery of International football and representing your country. Not of course that this is without precedent of course. The ROI have had plastic paddies in their teams for a long time but they are by no means the sole or probably the worst offender. Did I read recently that Victor Moses was tipped for an English call up on the basis that Nigeria were sniffing around?

It has been suggested somewhere else that The IFA would be happy to accept some form of compensation for the loss of the players they have developed. As laudable as the "football for all" programme is ( any idea if it is showing any signs of success?) I doubt if the IFA has had a huge input into the development of the three players mentioned and their progress can be attributed to their respective Premiership clubs

Anyway, whatever you think......................
 
I naturally find it hugely problematic, but I'd rather not get into a row about this.
 
Dual citizenship, that's what you have, eh Doc?

EDIT - I just read this post and i just want to say I wasn't trying to goad you into a row nor was I being smart with you Doc. I was asking a ligit question. I remember when you and Rosco had that to-do a while back I remember you saying that you were a citizen of Ireland and a citizen of the United Kingdom. I was genuinely askng you if that was the case. If so, it is not the same story for the players in question?
 
None of the mentioned players are really worth getting hot and bothered about.

I can appreciate the need for a rule change though.
 
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=39077.msg1060762#msg1060762 date=1267212211]
I naturally find it hugely problematic, but I'd rather not get into a row about this.


[/quote]

I was rather hoping that a reasonable discussion could ensue Doc without resorting to a row. I am fairly ignorant of the machination that go on between the two associations but on the face of things, I can see where Northern fans, even with normal prejudices aside, have grounds to feel aggrieved.

I understand that these things can be a tad more sensitive for some than others so I wont press you Doc to get involved.
 
[quote author=the count link=topic=39077.msg1060769#msg1060769 date=1267212769]
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=39077.msg1060762#msg1060762 date=1267212211]
I naturally find it hugely problematic, but I'd rather not get into a row about this.


[/quote]

I was rather hoping that a reasonable discussion could ensue Doc without resorting to a row. I am fairly ignorant of the machination that go on between the two associations but on the face of things, I can see where Northern fans, even with normal prejudices aside, have grounds to feel aggrieved.

I understand that these things can be a tad more sensitive for some than others so I wont press you Doc to get involved.
[/quote]

Our wee country has a hard enough time pulling a half decent 11 together without having players poached by the ROI. Naturally there are political reasons for changes of allegiance, but if FIFA allows this to continue, Norn Iron will end up only fielding protestant players. Personally, I think that would be a terrible shame, just as Norn Iron has been pulling itself together in terms of creating a state in which both sides have a stake, and has all but banished sectarianism from Windsor Park on international nights.


That's it from me.
 
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=39077.msg1060770#msg1060770 date=1267213275]
[quote author=the count link=topic=39077.msg1060769#msg1060769 date=1267212769]
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=39077.msg1060762#msg1060762 date=1267212211]
I naturally find it hugely problematic, but I'd rather not get into a row about this.


[/quote]

I was rather hoping that a reasonable discussion could ensue Doc without resorting to a row. I am fairly ignorant of the machination that go on between the two associations but on the face of things, I can see where Northern fans, even with normal prejudices aside, have grounds to feel aggrieved.

I understand that these things can be a tad more sensitive for some than others so I wont press you Doc to get involved.
[/quote]

Our wee country has a hard enough time pulling a half decent 11 together without having players poached by the ROI. Naturally there are political reasons for changes of allegiance, but if FIFA allows this to continue, Norn Iron will end up only fielding protestant players. Personally, I think that would be a terrible shame, just as Norn Iron has been pulling itself together in terms of creating a state in which both sides have a stake, and has all but banished sectarianism from Windsor Park on international nights.


That's it from me.

[/quote]

Thanks for that Doc.
As I said earlier the "football for everyone" programme is a fantastic idea and hopefully it will reap rewards for Northern Irish football (and people) in the future. I am also heartened to hear that the sectarionism in Windsor Park is gone and hopefully stays gone.
I suppose the situation with players changing allegiances is a real catch 22. To encourage players to stop switching you need Catholic players on the team and to get Catholic players on the team you have to get then to stop switching.

For the little that it is worth you have my sympathies and I wish you well.

Before Jack army came along I know I cheered Northern Ireland on in Espagne 82 and I like to think that we cheered as loud south of the border as you did north when you beat the hosts on that memorable night. My old memory might be playing tricks with me but I seem to recall the local priest asking mass goers to pray for a Northern Ireland's victory in that afternoons match, against the French I think? ;D

Getting away from our little island, it is a problem internationally that will I think have to be addressed sooner or later. I suppose there are so many vested interests that even the process of a young kid wanting to play for the country of his birth can become very complicated.
I seem to recall a Leeds youth player who was from Australia, not Harry or Viduka, being pressurised into declaring for England so the club wouldn't have to lose him to the other side of the world, with all the ensuing disruption to the player and his schedule.
 
Without getting into the messy nationality issue, it's quite obvious that if someone plays for a country's under 21's team they should only be eligible for that country's senior team.

Naturally I hold this opinion simply because France would lose quite a few players.
 
[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=39077.msg1060960#msg1060960 date=1267269512]
I seem to remember higuain wanted to play for france when he couldn't speak french
[/quote]

Yeah, but he was born in France, his father was a naturalized french citizen, he has a french passport etc.
 
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=39077.msg1060770#msg1060770 date=1267213275]
[quote author=the count link=topic=39077.msg1060769#msg1060769 date=1267212769]
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=39077.msg1060762#msg1060762 date=1267212211]
I naturally find it hugely problematic, but I'd rather not get into a row about this.


[/quote]

I was rather hoping that a reasonable discussion could ensue Doc without resorting to a row. I am fairly ignorant of the machination that go on between the two associations but on the face of things, I can see where Northern fans, even with normal prejudices aside, have grounds to feel aggrieved.

I understand that these things can be a tad more sensitive for some than others so I wont press you Doc to get involved.
[/quote]

Our wee country has a hard enough time pulling a half decent 11 together without having players poached by the ROI. Naturally there are political reasons for changes of allegiance, but if FIFA allows this to continue, Norn Iron will end up only fielding protestant players. Personally, I think that would be a terrible shame, just as Norn Iron has been pulling itself together in terms of creating a state in which both sides have a stake, and has all but banished sectarianism from Windsor Park on international nights.


That's it from me.

[/quote]

Doc, you're omitting the fact that at the end of the day each player still has the choie to make whether they play for the North or South. Gibson, Wilson and whomever else (regardless of how and when they were influenced) ultimately chose to play for the Republic.

I'd have done exactly the same if I was in the same circumstances.
 
I was born in Derry - does that mean I could play for both?

(If I could kick a football in a straight line that is)
 
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=39077.msg1062117#msg1062117 date=1267407167]
I was born in Derry - does that mean I could play for both?

(If I could kick a football in a straight line that is)
[/quote]

You could be born on the Shankhill and still choose to play for either Squiggles.
 
Listen, the Tadgh's aren't welcome on the Norn Iron team anyway, never have....

Get on your bike and cycle south, lads...
 
[quote author=localny link=topic=39077.msg1062133#msg1062133 date=1267411343]
Listen, the Tadgh's aren't welcome on the Norn Iron team anyway, never have....

Get on your bike and cycle south, lads...
[/quote]

That's simply not true.
 
[quote author=localny link=topic=39077.msg1062133#msg1062133 date=1267411343]
Listen, the Tadgh's aren't welcome on the Norn Iron team anyway, never have....

Get on your bike and cycle south, lads...
[/quote]

thats donkeywank. the players that are willing to forget politics/borders and play for the team representing the area they live and grew up in are always welcome.
 
[quote author=localny link=topic=39077.msg1062133#msg1062133 date=1267411343]
Listen, the Tadgh's aren't welcome on the Norn Iron team anyway, never have....

Get on your bike and cycle south, lads...
[/quote]

That's a bit of a fucking bigotry post there mate. "tadgh's" ???
 
Ah no frankly frank, not meant as such - thought I was allowed use it, no? My Dad's side are all Derry...

Seriously though, down through time, I was always under the impression that lads from the substantial minority didn't want to play for Norn Iron nor were they wanted.

Over time, they will want to play for "where they grew up", as part of things getting better but I think now most would rather play for the Republic. If the Norn Iron team is more welcoming to other traditions now, fair enough I take it back, but fans were always more of the queen supporting type, I assumed...ergo sum, if you're a catholic you wouldn't wanna play?
 
It's 2010 NY, and Northern Ireland boast some of the best fans around these days. they've come a long long way, and you seem not to be aware of this.
 
Fair enough sir, I would see how that could be right as I am 15 years gone from the place, and will amend my views forthwith if it is so..
 
[quote author=localny link=topic=39077.msg1062726#msg1062726 date=1267502156]
Fair enough sir, I would see how that could be right as I am 15 years gone from the place, and will amend my views forthwith if it is so..
[/quote]

I didn't mean my post to sound harsh, apologies if that's how it came across.

The change in quality of support at N.I games over the last 15 years has been astounding. Believe me, I was at the Neil Lennon game so I know how bad it was. It's a credit to the Irish FA how they've managed to turn things around, thanks in no small part to the work under Jim Wells leadership. Certainly ridding themselves of Billy Bingham and the fucking disgraceful 'rules' that existed under his and others tutelage back in the 90s has seen immense progression.

The side's relative success over the last 3/4 years has had a lot to do with it of course.
 
It would appear indeed that things have changed greatly for the better and its wonderful to see that, but I can never forget the way Anton Rogan was treated by his own fans years ago and I also cant help thinking that stuff like that is what influences some catholics to declare for the Republic.
 
A majority of Catholics have no allegiance to the Northern Ireland football team and this will take at least a generation or so to change the mind sets. The NI supporters are as good as any in the world and the bigotry and hatred has been left behind but there still needs to be changes from the top. Of course they still have some idiots supporting them but what teams don't.

The IFA don't help themselves in continuing to use Windsor part which is located in a loyalist area of Belfast when they had a chance to move to a new stadium in a neutral area been built for free, they refused it and are instead going to renovate a stadium which is probably one of the worst international stadiums in Western Europe.

Going back to the original point about going to the COA, through the good Friday agreement all residents in the North have the choice of dual citizenship which enables them to declare for the Republic but something has to give in that if a player represents Norther Ireland over the age of 18 he has to declare himself for the North.
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39077.msg1062727#msg1062727 date=1267502720]
[quote author=localny link=topic=39077.msg1062726#msg1062726 date=1267502156]
Fair enough sir, I would see how that could be right as I am 15 years gone from the place, and will amend my views forthwith if it is so..
[/quote]

I didn't mean my post to sound harsh, apologies if that's how it came across.

The change in quality of support at N.I games over the last 15 years has been astounding. Believe me, I was at the Neil Lennon game so I know how bad it was. It's a credit to the Irish FA how they've managed to turn things around, thanks in no small part to the work under Jim Wells leadership. Certainly ridding themselves of Billy Bingham and the fucking disgraceful 'rules' that existed under his and others tutelage back in the 90s has seen immense progression.

The side's relative success over the last 3/4 years has had a lot to do with it of course.
[/quote]

Not harsh at all, Ryan ...was impressed by yer restraint!

Yeah so it seems to be it's much better than it was and will only get better over time as the old guard moves on and the new generation of kids comes through. We'll see. I'd say you'll still see the drain of talent for another 15 years though...

Seems like just yesterday the North was in the World Cup, and the Republic was struggling...sure it might reverse itself again in a few years
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39077.msg1063929#msg1063929 date=1267681631]
I wanna know why D-Mac doesn't want to participate in this thread.
[/quote]

It's cos I told him he can't be English and Irish, he has to pick one and hate the other.
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=39077.msg1064159#msg1064159 date=1267729065]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39077.msg1063929#msg1063929 date=1267681631]
I wanna know why D-Mac doesn't want to participate in this thread.
[/quote]

It's cos I told him he can't be English and Irish, he has to pick one and hate the other.
[/quote]

Ha
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=39077.msg1064159#msg1064159 date=1267729065]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39077.msg1063929#msg1063929 date=1267681631]
I wanna know why D-Mac doesn't want to participate in this thread.
[/quote]

It's cos I told him he can't be English and Irish, he has to pick one and hate the other.
[/quote]

When? Where?

EDIT: Oh was this the 'Wille John McBride' debate?
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39077.msg1064221#msg1064221 date=1267741382]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=39077.msg1064159#msg1064159 date=1267729065]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39077.msg1063929#msg1063929 date=1267681631]
I wanna know why D-Mac doesn't want to participate in this thread.
[/quote]

It's cos I told him he can't be English and Irish, he has to pick one and hate the other.
[/quote]

When? Where?

EDIT: Oh was this the 'Wille John McBride' debate?
[/quote]


It was British and Irish ya fat git. I'm in no part English, and never shall be.
 
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