you are supposed to have two players for every position, right?
8 defenders
8 midfielders
4 strikers
so what the fuck is going on?
8 defenders
8 midfielders
4 strikers
so what the fuck is going on?
how did our squad become so depleted?
- Thread starter spider-Neil
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Fucking mystery isn't it.
It's easy to say now but the writing was on the wall for me as early as Spurs away first game of the season.
They smashed us all over the park and we looked like a side that would struggle throughout the season.
There was no fight, hunger, intelligence on display even back then.
It's easy to say now but the writing was on the wall for me as early as Spurs away first game of the season.
They smashed us all over the park and we looked like a side that would struggle throughout the season.
There was no fight, hunger, intelligence on display even back then.
look at the fullback positions
our options are;
johnson and insua - first choice
degan and aurelio back up. two ridiculously injury prone players
our options are;
johnson and insua - first choice
degan and aurelio back up. two ridiculously injury prone players
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39845.msg1089364#msg1089364 date=1271530926]
you are supposed to have two players for every position, right?
8 defenders
8 midfielders
4 strikers
so what the fuck is going on?
[/quote]
Quite simple. Round pegs for round holes.
Have 4 strikers. Nando, Deadly, Babel & N Gog. But we have turned Deadly into the slowest most defensive RM in the land and right footed Ryan into a scheming left winger. Not.
Both Aqua and Lucas, both free flowing AM's have been twinned at times with Masher at the heart of a DM pairing, whilst Stevie has been indulged and allowed to play the support striker role, as it worked so well last year, when Xabi was providing the ammo.
The only position where we were short was LM, cos call me old fashioned but I think it's better if you're left footed to play there. We have Albert who pissed Rafa off and Aurelio who would be put down if he was a horse.
Our skwad is vast, just lacking in kwalitee.
you are supposed to have two players for every position, right?
8 defenders
8 midfielders
4 strikers
so what the fuck is going on?
[/quote]
Quite simple. Round pegs for round holes.
Have 4 strikers. Nando, Deadly, Babel & N Gog. But we have turned Deadly into the slowest most defensive RM in the land and right footed Ryan into a scheming left winger. Not.
Both Aqua and Lucas, both free flowing AM's have been twinned at times with Masher at the heart of a DM pairing, whilst Stevie has been indulged and allowed to play the support striker role, as it worked so well last year, when Xabi was providing the ammo.
The only position where we were short was LM, cos call me old fashioned but I think it's better if you're left footed to play there. We have Albert who pissed Rafa off and Aurelio who would be put down if he was a horse.
Our skwad is vast, just lacking in kwalitee.
[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=39845.msg1089374#msg1089374 date=1271531629]
I'm sure we could throw in some reserve goalkeepers tho.
[/quote]
I'd almost be tempted to put Diego in net and shift Pepe into the midfield.
I'm sure we could throw in some reserve goalkeepers tho.
[/quote]
I'd almost be tempted to put Diego in net and shift Pepe into the midfield.
[quote author=darkstarexodus link=topic=39845.msg1089439#msg1089439 date=1271541740]
[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=39845.msg1089374#msg1089374 date=1271531629]
I'm sure we could throw in some reserve goalkeepers tho.
[/quote]
I'd almost be tempted to put Diego in net and shift Pepe into the midfield.
[/quote]
This has been tried before.
[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=39845.msg1089374#msg1089374 date=1271531629]
I'm sure we could throw in some reserve goalkeepers tho.
[/quote]
I'd almost be tempted to put Diego in net and shift Pepe into the midfield.
[/quote]
This has been tried before.
Errrrrr.........*scratches head*......hmmmmm........we sold more than we bought?
[quote author=thelurker link=topic=39845.msg1089478#msg1089478 date=1271546172]
At least we still have Babel ;D
[/quote]
well, there is that.
At least we still have Babel ;D
[/quote]
well, there is that.
[quote author=vantage link=topic=39845.msg1089452#msg1089452 date=1271542374]
[quote author=darkstarexodus link=topic=39845.msg1089439#msg1089439 date=1271541740]
[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=39845.msg1089374#msg1089374 date=1271531629]
I'm sure we could throw in some reserve goalkeepers tho.
[/quote]
I'd almost be tempted to put Diego in net and shift Pepe into the midfield.
[/quote]
This has been tried before.
[/quote]
That's what I was alluding to. Pepe didn't look that bad out there.
[quote author=darkstarexodus link=topic=39845.msg1089439#msg1089439 date=1271541740]
[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=39845.msg1089374#msg1089374 date=1271531629]
I'm sure we could throw in some reserve goalkeepers tho.
[/quote]
I'd almost be tempted to put Diego in net and shift Pepe into the midfield.
[/quote]
This has been tried before.
[/quote]
That's what I was alluding to. Pepe didn't look that bad out there.
We kept getting rid of "dead wood", it wasn't dead wood in many cases it was squad players . They were not replaced because we are on a mission to sign up every seventeen year old in Europe that can lace his own boots
regards
regards
[quote author=vantage link=topic=39845.msg1089373#msg1089373 date=1271531585]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39845.msg1089364#msg1089364 date=1271530926]
you are supposed to have two players for every position, right?
8 defenders
8 midfielders
4 strikers
so what the fuck is going on?
[/quote]
Quite simple. Round pegs for round holes.
Have 4 strikers. Nando, Deadly, Babel & N Gog. But we have turned Deadly into the slowest most defensive RM in the land and right footed Ryan into a scheming left winge]. Not.
Both Aqua and Lucas, both free flowing AM's have been twinned at times with Masher at the heart of a DM pairing, whilst Stevie has been indulged and allowed to play the support striker role, as it worked so well last year, when Xabi was providing the ammo.
The only position where we were short was LM, cos call me old fashioned but I think it's better if you're left footed to play there. We have Albert who pissed Rafa off and Aurelio who would be put down if he was a horse.
Our skwad is vast, just lacking in kwalitee.
[/quote]
In fairness Holland played Deadly out on the right before we ever did, Babel played more on the left than anywhere else during his time with Ajax, and left-footers of sufficient quality are pretty rare.
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39845.msg1089364#msg1089364 date=1271530926]
you are supposed to have two players for every position, right?
8 defenders
8 midfielders
4 strikers
so what the fuck is going on?
[/quote]
Quite simple. Round pegs for round holes.
Have 4 strikers. Nando, Deadly, Babel & N Gog. But we have turned Deadly into the slowest most defensive RM in the land and right footed Ryan into a scheming left winge]. Not.
Both Aqua and Lucas, both free flowing AM's have been twinned at times with Masher at the heart of a DM pairing, whilst Stevie has been indulged and allowed to play the support striker role, as it worked so well last year, when Xabi was providing the ammo.
The only position where we were short was LM, cos call me old fashioned but I think it's better if you're left footed to play there. We have Albert who pissed Rafa off and Aurelio who would be put down if he was a horse.
Our skwad is vast, just lacking in kwalitee.
[/quote]
In fairness Holland played Deadly out on the right before we ever did, Babel played more on the left than anywhere else during his time with Ajax, and left-footers of sufficient quality are pretty rare.
We let Hamann, Hyypia and Zenden all go..
We dont have experienced back up anywhere!!!!
we could still have Finnan, Hyypia, Arbeloa.... we made near to no money from selling them. Given a bit of support and convincing im sure all 3 would have stayed..
Our back up as Vlad said is 18 year old's signed for millions from around the world.. yet none... are actually used as back up.
The worst thing of all.. every back up player Rafa has signed is incredibly injury prone.
We dont have experienced back up anywhere!!!!
we could still have Finnan, Hyypia, Arbeloa.... we made near to no money from selling them. Given a bit of support and convincing im sure all 3 would have stayed..
Our back up as Vlad said is 18 year old's signed for millions from around the world.. yet none... are actually used as back up.
The worst thing of all.. every back up player Rafa has signed is incredibly injury prone.
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=39845.msg1089510#msg1089510 date=1271581328]
I don't want to turn this into a Babel thread but I don't know why Rafa doesn't just try it out and put him upfront. It's got to be worth a shot and it's certainly better than the alternatives in some games.
[/quote]
talking about the striking positions, torres and gerrard are liverpool's greatest strength and weakness in that they win games by themselves but when they don't turn it on or are injuried no one will and if you are a striker thinking about joining you're be thinking can I get into the team. would bent start week in week out for liverpool. its definately a problem.
I don't want to turn this into a Babel thread but I don't know why Rafa doesn't just try it out and put him upfront. It's got to be worth a shot and it's certainly better than the alternatives in some games.
[/quote]
talking about the striking positions, torres and gerrard are liverpool's greatest strength and weakness in that they win games by themselves but when they don't turn it on or are injuried no one will and if you are a striker thinking about joining you're be thinking can I get into the team. would bent start week in week out for liverpool. its definately a problem.
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39845.msg1089522#msg1089522 date=1271582946]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=39845.msg1089510#msg1089510 date=1271581328]
I don't want to turn this into a Babel thread but I don't know why Rafa doesn't just try it out and put him upfront. It's got to be worth a shot and it's certainly better than the alternatives in some games.
[/quote]
talking about the striking positions, torres and gerrard are liverpool's greatest strength and weakness in that they win games by themselves but when they don't turn it on or are injuried no one will and if you are a striker thinking about joining you're be thinking can I get into the team. would bent start week in week out for liverpool. its definately a problem.
[/quote]
Good point Neil. We have, in N'Gog a back up of the quality you would expect for someone who knows that if Nando is fit, he'll rarely play.
Utd once had the best sub ever in Solksjaer as he was quite content to not be a 1st team starter but could do the business when he came off teh bench.
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=39845.msg1089510#msg1089510 date=1271581328]
I don't want to turn this into a Babel thread but I don't know why Rafa doesn't just try it out and put him upfront. It's got to be worth a shot and it's certainly better than the alternatives in some games.
[/quote]
talking about the striking positions, torres and gerrard are liverpool's greatest strength and weakness in that they win games by themselves but when they don't turn it on or are injuried no one will and if you are a striker thinking about joining you're be thinking can I get into the team. would bent start week in week out for liverpool. its definately a problem.
[/quote]
Good point Neil. We have, in N'Gog a back up of the quality you would expect for someone who knows that if Nando is fit, he'll rarely play.
Utd once had the best sub ever in Solksjaer as he was quite content to not be a 1st team starter but could do the business when he came off teh bench.
This is pretty much our senior squad plus an odd appearance from guys like El Zahr:-
GK Reina, Cavalieri
LB Insua, Aurelio
CH Carragher, Agger, Skrtel, Kyrgiakos
RB Johnson, Degen
LM Benayoun, Babel, Riera
CM Mascherano, Lucas, Aquilani
RM Kuyt, Maxi
F Gerrard, Torres, Ngog
I've put Stevie and Yossi in the positions that they've mainly played this season. It's a thin squad even before losing Degen, Aurelio and Aquilani to injury for much of this season and so we couldn't afford Rafa's stance on Riera.
It's difficult to keep track of why it became so thin but I think Sheiky's right, we've sold more than we bought. In the last two Winter transfer windows, we let Keane, Voronin and Dossena go and only brought in Maxi.
Also, I suspect that recent salary increases for the likes of Reina, Kuyt, Agger, Torres, Stevie and Mascher has meant the first team has gotten a larger slice of the salary pie and so there's less, if any, for filling out the squad.
GK Reina, Cavalieri
LB Insua, Aurelio
CH Carragher, Agger, Skrtel, Kyrgiakos
RB Johnson, Degen
LM Benayoun, Babel, Riera
CM Mascherano, Lucas, Aquilani
RM Kuyt, Maxi
F Gerrard, Torres, Ngog
I've put Stevie and Yossi in the positions that they've mainly played this season. It's a thin squad even before losing Degen, Aurelio and Aquilani to injury for much of this season and so we couldn't afford Rafa's stance on Riera.
It's difficult to keep track of why it became so thin but I think Sheiky's right, we've sold more than we bought. In the last two Winter transfer windows, we let Keane, Voronin and Dossena go and only brought in Maxi.
Also, I suspect that recent salary increases for the likes of Reina, Kuyt, Agger, Torres, Stevie and Mascher has meant the first team has gotten a larger slice of the salary pie and so there's less, if any, for filling out the squad.
[quote author=vantage link=topic=39845.msg1089524#msg1089524 date=1271583276]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39845.msg1089522#msg1089522 date=1271582946]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=39845.msg1089510#msg1089510 date=1271581328]
I don't want to turn this into a Babel thread but I don't know why Rafa doesn't just try it out and put him upfront. It's got to be worth a shot and it's certainly better than the alternatives in some games.
[/quote]
talking about the striking positions, torres and gerrard are liverpool's greatest strength and weakness in that they win games by themselves but when they don't turn it on or are injuried no one will and if you are a striker thinking about joining you're be thinking can I get into the team. would bent start week in week out for liverpool. its definately a problem.
[/quote]
Good point Neil. We have, in N'Gog a back up of the quality you would expect for someone who knows that if Nando is fit, he'll rarely play.
Utd once had the best sub ever in Solksjaer as he was quite content to not be a 1st team starter but could do the business when he came off teh bench.
[/quote]
it was the same owen and heskey were up front, it wasn't about bringing in someone good enough to give them serious competition it was about getting someone to cover for them if they got injuried, the obvious exception being anelka and even he couldn't force his way in.
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39845.msg1089522#msg1089522 date=1271582946]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=39845.msg1089510#msg1089510 date=1271581328]
I don't want to turn this into a Babel thread but I don't know why Rafa doesn't just try it out and put him upfront. It's got to be worth a shot and it's certainly better than the alternatives in some games.
[/quote]
talking about the striking positions, torres and gerrard are liverpool's greatest strength and weakness in that they win games by themselves but when they don't turn it on or are injuried no one will and if you are a striker thinking about joining you're be thinking can I get into the team. would bent start week in week out for liverpool. its definately a problem.
[/quote]
Good point Neil. We have, in N'Gog a back up of the quality you would expect for someone who knows that if Nando is fit, he'll rarely play.
Utd once had the best sub ever in Solksjaer as he was quite content to not be a 1st team starter but could do the business when he came off teh bench.
[/quote]
it was the same owen and heskey were up front, it wasn't about bringing in someone good enough to give them serious competition it was about getting someone to cover for them if they got injuried, the obvious exception being anelka and even he couldn't force his way in.
Rafa's revolving door policy has always depended on him getting it mostly right in the transfer market. The idea of making incremental improvements each summer didn't win everyone over, but it was never very difficult to find arguments to defend it and Rafa.
Unfortunately when it goes wrong, it's very difficult to put right again without spending a lot of money because you have to spend more than you received to get back the quality you had in the first place and then more on top of that to progress from that baseline.
Our squad is extremely thin right now. It's not quite so bad in terms of actual numbers, but when you look at players the manager actually wants to use and aren't injury prone, we're really in the shit. Aurelio is always injured and is on his way out. It doesn't matter whether Degen is injured or not because Rafa will do anything to avoid playing him. Riera might as well not exist. Babel is only being played out of some sort of necessity - the manager doesn't really trust in him. And the Aquilani situation is not looking good so far.
Unfortunately when it goes wrong, it's very difficult to put right again without spending a lot of money because you have to spend more than you received to get back the quality you had in the first place and then more on top of that to progress from that baseline.
Our squad is extremely thin right now. It's not quite so bad in terms of actual numbers, but when you look at players the manager actually wants to use and aren't injury prone, we're really in the shit. Aurelio is always injured and is on his way out. It doesn't matter whether Degen is injured or not because Rafa will do anything to avoid playing him. Riera might as well not exist. Babel is only being played out of some sort of necessity - the manager doesn't really trust in him. And the Aquilani situation is not looking good so far.
[quote author=keniget link=topic=39845.msg1089542#msg1089542 date=1271586665]
Rafa's revolving door policy has always depended on him getting it mostly right in the transfer market. The idea of making incremental improvements each summer didn't win everyone over, but it was never very difficult to find arguments to defend it and Rafa.
Unfortunately when it goes wrong, it's very difficult to put right again without spending a lot of money because you have to spend more than you received to get back the quality you had in the first place and then more on top of that to progress from that baseline.
Our squad is extremely thin right now. It's not quite so bad in terms of actual numbers, but when you look at players the manager actually wants to use and aren't injury prone, we're really in the shit. Aurelio is always injured and is on his way out. It doesn't matter whether Degen is injured or not because Rafa will do anything to avoid playing him. Riera might as well not exist. Babel is only being played out of some sort of necessity - the manager doesn't really trust in him. And the Aquilani situation is not looking good so far.
[/quote]
basically the manager needs to bring in roughly five players ranging from absolutely quality to competent squad player and he needs to do that without having to sell anyone unless they are out of favour or ridiculously injury prone. I'd definately off load aqua and aurelio not because I think they are poor but because they simply cannot be relied upon to remain fit. torres is the obvious exception.
Rafa's revolving door policy has always depended on him getting it mostly right in the transfer market. The idea of making incremental improvements each summer didn't win everyone over, but it was never very difficult to find arguments to defend it and Rafa.
Unfortunately when it goes wrong, it's very difficult to put right again without spending a lot of money because you have to spend more than you received to get back the quality you had in the first place and then more on top of that to progress from that baseline.
Our squad is extremely thin right now. It's not quite so bad in terms of actual numbers, but when you look at players the manager actually wants to use and aren't injury prone, we're really in the shit. Aurelio is always injured and is on his way out. It doesn't matter whether Degen is injured or not because Rafa will do anything to avoid playing him. Riera might as well not exist. Babel is only being played out of some sort of necessity - the manager doesn't really trust in him. And the Aquilani situation is not looking good so far.
[/quote]
basically the manager needs to bring in roughly five players ranging from absolutely quality to competent squad player and he needs to do that without having to sell anyone unless they are out of favour or ridiculously injury prone. I'd definately off load aqua and aurelio not because I think they are poor but because they simply cannot be relied upon to remain fit. torres is the obvious exception.
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39845.msg1089545#msg1089545 date=1271587162]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=39845.msg1089542#msg1089542 date=1271586665]
Rafa's revolving door policy has always depended on him getting it mostly right in the transfer market. The idea of making incremental improvements each summer didn't win everyone over, but it was never very difficult to find arguments to defend it and Rafa.
Unfortunately when it goes wrong, it's very difficult to put right again without spending a lot of money because you have to spend more than you received to get back the quality you had in the first place and then more on top of that to progress from that baseline.
Our squad is extremely thin right now. It's not quite so bad in terms of actual numbers, but when you look at players the manager actually wants to use and aren't injury prone, we're really in the shit. Aurelio is always injured and is on his way out. It doesn't matter whether Degen is injured or not because Rafa will do anything to avoid playing him. Riera might as well not exist. Babel is only being played out of some sort of necessity - the manager doesn't really trust in him. And the Aquilani situation is not looking good so far.
[/quote]
basically the manager needs to bring in roughly five players ranging from absolutely quality to competent squad player and he needs to do that without having to sell anyone unless they are out of favour or ridiculously injury prone. I'd definately off load aqua and aurelio not because I think they are poor but because they simply cannot be relied upon to remain fit. torres is the obvious exception.
[/quote]
He also really needs to start trusting some of the youngsters he's brought in and give them a real chance to be squad members rather than, say, playing a senior player out of position.
[quote author=keniget link=topic=39845.msg1089542#msg1089542 date=1271586665]
Rafa's revolving door policy has always depended on him getting it mostly right in the transfer market. The idea of making incremental improvements each summer didn't win everyone over, but it was never very difficult to find arguments to defend it and Rafa.
Unfortunately when it goes wrong, it's very difficult to put right again without spending a lot of money because you have to spend more than you received to get back the quality you had in the first place and then more on top of that to progress from that baseline.
Our squad is extremely thin right now. It's not quite so bad in terms of actual numbers, but when you look at players the manager actually wants to use and aren't injury prone, we're really in the shit. Aurelio is always injured and is on his way out. It doesn't matter whether Degen is injured or not because Rafa will do anything to avoid playing him. Riera might as well not exist. Babel is only being played out of some sort of necessity - the manager doesn't really trust in him. And the Aquilani situation is not looking good so far.
[/quote]
basically the manager needs to bring in roughly five players ranging from absolutely quality to competent squad player and he needs to do that without having to sell anyone unless they are out of favour or ridiculously injury prone. I'd definately off load aqua and aurelio not because I think they are poor but because they simply cannot be relied upon to remain fit. torres is the obvious exception.
[/quote]
He also really needs to start trusting some of the youngsters he's brought in and give them a real chance to be squad members rather than, say, playing a senior player out of position.
Did someone just describe fucking Lucarse as a 'free flowing attacking midfielder'?
Fucking embarrassing
Fucking embarrassing
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=39845.msg1089549#msg1089549 date=1271587695]
Did someone just describe fucking Lucarse as a 'free flowing attacking midfielder'?
Fucking embarrassing
[/quote]
No, I said that was his natural role at both Gremio and the Brazil U21 level. And we play him as a partner to Masher as a DM. If anyone needs to be embarrassed it is you for not knowing this.
Moving on.......
Did someone just describe fucking Lucarse as a 'free flowing attacking midfielder'?
Fucking embarrassing
[/quote]
No, I said that was his natural role at both Gremio and the Brazil U21 level. And we play him as a partner to Masher as a DM. If anyone needs to be embarrassed it is you for not knowing this.
Moving on.......
- Status
