Firmino

[Frogfish]

You buy a cracking AM / second striker and then use him as a winger / wing back. Typical Rodgers.

Some interesting stats (pinched from another forum) on Firmino so far, notice how much defensive work he's doing, stymying his effectiveness as an attacker.

Shots:
15/16 Liverpool - 1.6
14/15 Hoffenheim - 2.9
13/14 Hoffenheim - 2.9

Tackles:
15/16 Liverpool - 6.1
14/15 Hoffenheim - 2.7
13/14 Hoffenheim - 2.5

Dribbles:
15/16 Liverpool - 2.9
14/15 Hoffenheim - 4.3
13/14 Hoffenheim - 4.6

Dispossessed:
15/16 Liverpool - 5.7
14/15 Hoffenheim - 2.3
13/14 Hoffenheim - 3.3

His Brazil stats are similar to his Hoffenheim ones.

 

[My_Blood_Bleeds_Red]

Brodgers is a clueless tool.

 

[HC]

The fuck.


Hes played like 120 mins and youre comparing his stats to entire seasons elsewhere? That just doesnt seem productive

 

[Halmeister]

He's not helped by the manager.

If he was played in a role and system he's used to then he will flourish. I doubt it will happen under Rodgers though.

 

[Frogfish]

The fuck.


Hes played like 120 mins and youre comparing his stats to entire seasons elsewhere? That just doesnt seem productive

221 mins actually but if you can't see the relevance leave posting to those that can.

 

[Frogfish]

He's not helped by the manager.

If he was played in a role and system he's used to then he will flourish. I doubt it will happen under Rodgers though.

That's pretty much my point. Why buy him in the first place if you are just going to stick him out wide and ask him to track back to help out the FB. It isn't playing to anything like his strengths. If that's what Rodgers wanted then he should have just bought another strong running winger. With Coutinho out you would've thought that against United was the perfect time to play him at #10.

 

[Mors]

Stats of a full season in a weak German league compared to two games in ours, I like it!!

 

[Frogfish]

Stats of a full season in a weak German league compared to two games in ours, I like it!!

That's not really the point .. it's the way the player is being used that is affecting the stats. They won't change if he's continually played as a winger/wing back.

 

[Hansern]

If you're basing "weak" on European success in recent years, I dont think there is much between the leagues tbh.

The point is that he's played out of position. Which is typical Rodgers.

 

[HC]

So players dont take time to adjust to new leagues?

Or have differing fitness levels season to season. Never mind the fact its a completely different and new Side hes playing in

 

[Insignificance]

So players dont take time to adjust to new leagues?

Or have differing fitness levels season to season. Never mind the fact its a completely different and new Side hes playing in

Thats the excuse for last season.....

 

[Jack D Rips]

Why do people have to take everything that's said, turn it upside down, inside out, and then come up with a counter argument?

The point is that our clueless manager keeps playing him ( and others) out of position.

 

[Frogfish]

Why do people have to take everything that's said, turn it upside down, inside out, and then come up with a counter argument?

The point is that our clueless manager keeps playing him ( and others) out of position.

Thanks Jack. It seems it doesn't matter how often this fact is pointed put to him it just goes flying over HC's head.

 

[HC]

you wheeled out some fantastically invalid statistics..

Ive got no problem with your point re Rodgers but the stats are worthless.

 

[Frogfish]

you wheeled out some fantastically invalid statistics..

Ive got no problem with your point re Rodgers but the stats are worthless.

Only in your eyes. And as were his 8 tackles versus United too ? More than any other player on the pitch (and this was the same versus Arsenal I believe, 6 in 45 mins was more than anyone else in 90 mins). They point to a trend, if you refuse to even consider that because the data only covers a few matches then I see no point in debating it with you.
You can probably ignore our form against West Ham and United too - because you know, it was only 2 games.

 

[Gerry_A_Trick]

Players are going to make more tackles in games we are losing, all our players have probably had to do more defensive work this season, cause we've been shit, and not had as many shots, again because we've been shit.

I agree with your point and conclusion, but I'm not sure the stats given are the best indicator.

 

[Oncy]

I havnt seen anything from Firmino yet to suggest hes anything more than a 10m decent AM.

I am however starting to get to the point like I was under Rafa where im loathe to blame the player.
We dont really have a system, a plan. We dont set out to play in any way, and my big fear now is that Mr Rodgers is so worried about his job that his sole aim is to not lose and as such hes forgetting to try and win and that in itself is costing us games now.

Playing to win or playing not to lose?
I know what it looks like and Im worried about where we go from here.
Players playing within themselves, 2 banks of 4, keep the ball, stifle play.... Its all turning a bit Roy Hodgson.

I think when we lost the league to City that he panicked and has almost entirely foregone that attacking verve in favour of pragmatism. I would imagine Chelsea winning the league that way has probably not helped.

Ings
Coutinho
Firmino
Sturridge
Benteke
Origi
Milner
Ibe
Markovic
Sterling
And hes struggled to get a tune out for 18 months now.

For me its a slippery slope from here, we dont have the players good enough to win 1-0 in every game, but we do have the players good enough to go out and express themselves. Right now if we continue down this road we are looking at another 60pts finish and top 7 again.

Its the fear of failure thats making us fail.

 

[Rosco]

Have to agree.

I think the manager job is put players in a situation that gives them an opportunity to be good. Whether they are or not is down to them.

But I just don't think he's giving Ings and Firmino a proper go. Benteke is suffering too, but he's still doing okay.

 

[Vlads Quiff]

I note Oncey makes the connection with Rafa in his closing days at Liverpool - it's almost uncanny how similar this all feels now with Brodge. Square pegs in round holes , ludicrous tactics and bizarre team selection. All this coupled with an over riding impression he is stubbornly trying to turn things around by doing it his way. The players see it all to are helpless as to what to do and have no faith , this translates as no heart and and total apathy- We know it can't and won't go on - it's spooky.

 

[Vlads Quiff]

As to Firmino . Yes he's getting played out of position, yes he's still not up to fitness , yes the EPL takes some getting used to and (finally) yes, it's far to early to judge him. That said I am still slightly worried - the only flash of something I have seen in him at all is that shot that rattled the Woodwork against West Ham- I hope it's just the fitness thing but his pace looks suspect

 

[Skullflower]

Hodgers

 

[HC]

Ings or crouch on the wing.. Lol

Was it the Reading league match where voronin and crouch both started out wide?

It was either Arsenal or Reading , or maybe both..

 

[Leo]

Brenitez

 

[6TimesaRed]

Ings or crouch on the wing.. Lol

Was it the Reading league match where voronin and crouch both started out wide?

It was either Arsenal or Reading , or maybe both..

To be fair Crouchy was a beast against Bolton when he netted his hatrick. He was everywhere on the pitch.. The highlight of the game was when he did his Ronaldinho impression on the wing..

I think Rafa may have took the plaudits the whole of Anfield gave him too literally though..

 

[ILD]

Crouch scored a hatrick against Arsenal.

Crouch played out wide against Reading I think.

 

[refugee]

As to Firmino . Yes he's getting played out of position, yes he's still not up to fitness , yes the EPL takes some getting used to and (finally) yes, it's far to early to judge him. That said I am still slightly worried - the only flash of something I have seen in him at all is that shot that rattled the Woodwork against West Ham- I hope it's just the fitness thing but his pace looks suspect

He made a couple of good runs but the other players didn't see / pass to him.

 

[Insignificance]

He made a couple of good runs but the other players didn't see / pass to him.

They didn't pass it to anyone, just thumped into a gang of red shirts to get rid of the ball......

 

[Hansern]

Firmino is a boss player but it doesnt help him at all playing in a team without a tactical plan and out of position. There has also been zero movement infront of him.
Its been said numerous of times but we've got several talented players. Its just a shame our manager doesnt play them in their best and natural position.

If he wanted a winger for the 4-3-3 why buy Ings or Firmino? Why loan out Markovic?
I'm struggeling to see what "masterplan" Rodgers has thought out tbh.

That said, Firmino has played a total of 220 mins so far in his Liverpool career, so he'll get more time to adapt.

 

[darkstarexodus]

Crouch scored a hatrick against Arsenal.

Crouch played out wide against Reading I think.

Played wide against Reading. Will never forget that atrocity.

 

[darkstarexodus]

I havnt seen anything from Firmino yet to suggest hes anything more than a 10m decent AM.

I am however starting to get to the point like I was under Rafa where im loathe to blame the player.
We dont really have a system, a plan. We dont set out to play in any way, and my big fear now is that Mr Rodgers is so worried about his job that his sole aim is to not lose and as such hes forgetting to try and win and that in itself is costing us games now.

Playing to win or playing not to lose?
I know what it looks like and Im worried about where we go from here.
Players playing within themselves, 2 banks of 4, keep the ball, stifle play.... Its all turning a bit Roy Hodgson.

I think when we lost the league to City that he panicked and has almost entirely foregone that attacking verve in favour of pragmatism. I would imagine Chelsea winning the league that way has probably not helped.

Ings
Coutinho
Firmino
Sturridge
Benteke
Origi
Milner
Ibe
Markovic
Sterling
And hes struggled to get a tune out for 18 months now.

For me its a slippery slope from here, we dont have the players good enough to win 1-0 in every game, but we do have the players good enough to go out and express themselves. Right now if we continue down this road we are looking at another 60pts finish and top 7 again.

Its the fear of failure thats making us fail.

Totally.

Macca said in the Houllier thread that Ged seemed like he spent the day after the match reviewing what the media said about the match instead of reviewing the lessons of the match itself - feel like it's much the same here. Can't win playing cavalier says the media, let's shut up shop, etc