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Poll England for the English

Prefix for Poll Threads

Should Adnan Januzaj be allowed to play for England?

  • Having carefully considered the arguments - on balance - yes

    Votes: 10 37.0%
  • No I hate foreigners

    Votes: 17 63.0%

  • Total voters
    27
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peterhague

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What should we make of the current debate about Januzaj possibly declaring for England, and Wilshere's and others' comments on who should and shouldn't play for a country?

My own feeling is that where you are born is almost totally irrelevant, and only someone a bit thick would even make it, but that the actual rules based on 5 years' residency aren't much better.

Personally I'd make the case for the concept of a person being 'sufficiently' (or equivalent) English/British/whatever. I think it's obvious that, say, Mo Farrah, is less British than I am, or Shearer or Wilshere is, but I would say he is still clearly *sufficiently* British to compete for us because he's more British than anything else.

I think what is most important for determining a person's sense of nationality (or, at least, is both important and objective) is where they live during their formative years - up to adulthood, basically. I think that probably chimes with most people's experience. On that basis, I'd tentatively say that a person is English if they have been resident in England for a majority of their first 18 years, automatically.

For someone who doesn't meet that, like Januzaj, I think 5 years is too short a time to genuinely confer on a person a real sense of national feeling for their adopted country. It's subjective, obviously, so no number would be appropriate for all people, but should at least be suggestive of a clear commitment to settle - at least 10 years, but more like 20, IMO.

So, anyway, should he be able to play for England, or not?
 
Based on your post, I'm still not sure if you're voting yes or no. Yes in the poll is based on current rules or on modified rules such as what you're suggesting?
 
It is difficult to draw the line, but it is hardly a massive problem for the English team. It is not like they are going to start 7-8 players born in Brazil and just stick some token cockney in there which the fans can relate to. If it ain't broken, why worry?
 
Why would anyone ask you to vote on the current rules?! They are known and unambiguous.

The question is posed as a matter of principle. *Should* he be able to play for England?
 
It is difficult to draw the line, but it is hardly a massive problem for the English team. It is not like they are going to start 7-8 players born in Brazil and just stick some token cockney in there which the fans can relate to. If it ain't broken, why worry?



Have you not seen the immigration figures for the last several years? Plus the issue of specific 'football immigration' at PL academies is widespread and likely to lead to more such cases. It's actually quite likely to become a significant 'problem'.
 
Most other nations complain about the All Blacks and their 'nationalised' South Pacific islanders, they have a point, but if the person in question is now a NZ Citizen then IMHO they have the right to play for their 'new' country. That has now clicked with England Rugby.

We have to face the fact that the world as it was has changed, work forces are much more mobile and people now often have far more say/choice in where they can/want to live. If someone now has the option to choose the UK and converts their nationality to British then (and it gets a little more complicated here due to the individual countries involved) they should be entitled to play for (in this example) England.
The issue is that there are a plethora of different rules governing nationalisation depending on the country in question (and we won't even touch on dual/triple nationality !) therefore a standisation was brought in for football which didn't involve being nationalised.

Play within the rules, if they are too flexible (and I agree they are) then promote a change, however in the meantime if other nations are taking advantage (and I don't see people mention this often when discussing the Belgian or French teams for example) then we should too .. until the next rule change.
 
Imagine the uproar if a British youngster got into the Spanish youth system and declared to play for Spain..
 
Look at Andrew Strauss - he makes me feel foreign and he was born in South Africa and brought up in Australia. As far as I know he's got no English lineage but he ended up seeming like David Gower's kid brother. Pietersen is actually 'more' English than Strauss in terms of background as his mum was born in this country. Go figure.

I'm not sure about Januzaj. If he qualifies and he 'feels' English, then why not? If he just wants to play because he doesn't think he'll get picked by his own country, or he will but they won't qualify for as many big tournaments as England, then no. That's why I never have respect for these mediocre English players who suddenly decide they're Scottish or Irish or Nigerian or whatever when there's a slightest hint of a chance of a call up.

Ilori is surely a far more interesting case, as he was born here, spent time here, has English connections in his family background and already seems at home here. So if he decides he's English and wants to play for England he's surely entitled to do so.
 
I agree with Wilshire personally. If you're english or born in another country but raised in england then you should be allowed to play for england. If you're not then you shouldn't be allowed as long as your country doesn't have a national team. No way should Januzaj be allowed to play for england no matter how good or bad he turns out to be. I don't think the england manager should be foreign either regardless of how shit our current crop of managers are.

France are one of the worst culprits for importing french players from africa and i don't think it should be allowed.
 
Look at Andrew Strauss - he makes me feel foreign and he was born in South Africa and brought up in Australia. As far as I know he's got no English lineage but he ended up seeming like David Gower's kid brother. Pietersen is actually 'more' English than Strauss in terms of background as his mum was born in this country. Go figure.

I'm not sure about Januzaj. If he qualifies and he 'feels' English, then why not? If he just wants to play because he doesn't think he'll get picked by his own country, or he will but they won't qualify for as many big tournaments as England, then no. That's why I never have respect for these mediocre English players who suddenly decide they're Scottish or Irish or Nigerian or whatever when there's a slightest hint of a chance of a call up.

Ilori is surely a far more interesting case, as he was born here, spent time here, has English connections in his family background and already seems at home here. So if he decides he's English and wants to play for England he's surely entitled to do so.

You're right about Strauss he comes across as every inch the English public school educated toff, but he did move to the uk when he was six.
If the're good enough, fuck it, let them play. Suarez for England as far as I'm concerned.
 
According to Wikipedia Januzaj left Belgium for Utd in 2011, so on that basis I'd say no, I don't think there is any basis for considering him for the England side. He's been here for two years and has no real connection to the country other than that.

If he's allowed to play for England there is no point having international sides at all as we're properly working some kind of American style draft system.
 
Not sure about the whole thing but Barnes is english as anyone.
-Think a lot in the media is getting a little caught up on one brilliant 2nd half performance ( and a few other cameos) from an 18 yr old who won't be eligible till 5 yrs.
- Footballers shouldn't speak in general about anything else other than their performance, they just come off either thick or just end up doing a massive climb down like Jack.
 
It's fucking stupid anyway, he's played one good game...A couple of years ago it was Arteta, now its this kid, he will be forgotten in a couple of year like Macheda was.
 
Anyone over 23 who has never lived in England shouldn't be allowed, those under 23 must have had 3/4 of there life in England.
 
I agree with Wilshire personally. If you're english or born in another country but raised in england then you should be allowed to play for england. If you're not then you shouldn't be allowed as long as your country doesn't have a national team. No way should Januzaj be allowed to play for england no matter how good or bad he turns out to be. I don't think the england manager should be foreign either regardless of how shit our current crop of managers are.

France are one of the worst culprits for importing french players from africa and i don't think it should be allowed.

Most, if not all, players of african roots playing for France were born or raised in France..
 
Anyone over 23 who has never lived in England shouldn't be allowed, those under 23 must have had 3/4 of there life in England.
Sorry but that is utter bollocks ! If someone has made a commitment with their lives and become a citizen of that country then they qualify regardless of some arbitrary figure anyone pulls out of the air.
 
I don't think this is a problem. You have to live in a country for 5 years before being eligible and once you play for a national team(youth teams also count) you can only change and play for another country if you held the nationality of the second country at the time you represented your first choice national team. As most talented players are picked to play in youth national sides this won't become a problem in my opinion.
 
For me it's one of:
  • Where you grew up
  • Where you were born
  • Where your parents are from/what nation or culture they represent

Interestingly, Evra was born in Senegal, and Rio Mavuba was actually born at sea.

Peter Odemwingie was born in the USSR, in present day Uzbekistan
 
Fun(ish) fact - Maik Taylor who played for Northern Ireland was born in Germany whilst his dad who was in the army was stationed there, no parent or a grandparent had a connection to NI, he chose NI as you're allowed to pick any home nation if you're a British citizen born abroad.

I don't think it is a problem for a 'foreigner' to play for a national side when they become eligible but I don't like the thought of the more successful nations sticking youngsters in the bank for later. If England are talking to this young lad now he can't kick a ball for them for 3 years. In 3 years who is to say he's still good enough? maybe England won't want him, maybe other nations wanted to play him when he was 18 and he / they missed out on a lot.

Cases like Manuel Almunia and Diego Costa imo are fine, they've flown under the radar or just never been called up to play for their country of birth for whatever reason, if they become a citizen of the country in which they live and want to play for them then whats the problem.
 
For me it's one of:
  • Where you grew up
  • Where you were born
  • Where your parents are from/what nation or culture they represent

Interestingly, Evra was born in Senegal, and Rio Mavuba was actually born at sea.

Peter Odemwingie was born in the USSR, in present day Uzbekistan


Vieira was born in Senegal

Makelele in Zaire
 
Hasslebaink, Seedorf, Davids all Suriname

I don't think place of birth matters that much
 
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