• You may have to login or register before you can post and view our exclusive members only forums.
    To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Duckenfield charged with manslaughter

Status
Not open for further replies.
Well at least they're going for the big ride now. Had they been prosecuted at the time, it would have been very easy to lie their way out of it. Everyone does it all the time, courtrooms can be one the most naïve places on earth. But now, there is such a mountain of evidence and statements and testimony to contend with, it's game over, there's no way to lie when there's fifteen lever arch files of you incriminating yourself sitting on the bench in front of you. I'd much rather justice/revenge be inevitable rather than possibly avoidable, no matter the time it takes.
 
Yeah, looking at it that way, the "better late than never" theory is looking more advantageous. I can't see how they can lie their way out of it now. Unless they find some stupid technicality.
 
I'm try not to be a cruel man.
I still think all 5 are given a chance to live their lives ... in ISIS held territory with those cartoons from that Danish daily.
 
Hugely important day for the campaign for justice. I tend to think the cover up should be punished more harshly than the incompetence on the day itself. It was extremely dangerous, planned and successful abuse of power that caused further pain and grievance to people with already experiencing massive pain and loss. People they were supposed to be protecting. They will certainly be found guilty. As Dantes says, the evidence against them will be massive.
 
Exactly - by their own admission they allowed the match to go ahead in the knowledge there was no safety certificate for Hillsborough (they even apologised for that a few years ago). If thats not a case for corporate manslaughter then I'm a monkey's uncle.

This. It all stems from this. There's no acceptable excuse for the subsequent cover-up, but on the day itself the police were presented with a near enough impossible job because the FA, WHICH WAS WARNED THE PREVIOUS SEASON THAT SOMETHING LIKE THIS COULD HAPPEN, BECAUSE IT NEARLY DID THE YEAR BEFORE AT THE SAME STAGE OF THE SAME COMPETITION, ignored those warnings,
 
This. It all stems from this. There's no acceptable excuse for the subsequent cover-up, but on the day itself the police were presented with a near enough impossible job because the FA, WHICH WAS WARNED THE PREVIOUS SEASON THAT SOMETHING LIKE THIS COULD HAPPEN, BECAUSE IT NEARLY DID THE YEAR BEFORE AT THE SAME STAGE OF THE SAME COMPETITION, ignored those warnings,

The FA has to be held accountable.
 
Last edited:
The technicality will be down to discussing wether they are guilty or not on forums or social media..

The defendants can then try to argue they do don't have the ability to seek a fair trial..
 
If that was the case, no-one in a high profile case would ever have to go to court ever again.
 
What are the odds on him hanging himself?
I would if I was him. 100%
Hes going to spend the rest of his life in jail.

As has been said the police on the day made
Mistakes and it led to a terrible tragedy.
Its the cover up that needs punishing.

If they had held their hands up, said we fucked up, compensated the families etc would there be criminal charges? Im not so sure.

Its a horrible thing to even think about.

No one ever wins.
 
As far as Sheffield Wednesday is concerned, apparently it wasn't charged because the club was 'bought out in 2010 and effectively became a new organisation, which is no longer criminally liable for any offences committed by the old one'. I get that, although the additional explanation from Sue Hemming that even if it had been charged, Wednesday ‘does not have any assets with which to pay a fine,’ strikes me as neither here nor there. Presumably inability to pay a fine doesn't normally mean you escape being charged with an offence, so I'm not sure why she bothered to mention it.

The decision to let off the FA, on the other hand, 'because prosecutors decided the organisation could not be held legally responsible for the stadium lacking a safety certificate', is maddening. They blatantly ignored Peter Robinson's information, advice and plea, and their behaviour was disgraceful.
 
As far as Sheffield Wednesday is concerned, apparently it wasn't charged because the club was 'bought out in 2010 and effectively became a new organisation, which is no longer criminally liable for any offences committed by the old one'. I get that, although the additional explanation from Sue Hemming that even if it had been charged, Wednesday ‘does not have any assets with which to pay a fine,’ strikes me as neither here nor there. Presumably inability to pay a fine doesn't normally mean you escape being charged with an offence, so I'm not sure why she bothered to mention it.

The decision to let off the FA, on the other hand, 'because prosecutors decided the organisation could not be held legally responsible for the stadium lacking a safety certificate', is maddening. They blatantly ignored Peter Robinson's information, advice and plea, and their behaviour was disgraceful.

In the immediate aftermath I had two recurring daydreams. Both involved tracking down and punching people. Duckenfield was one, that vile chancer Graham Kelly was the other. How the FA have got away with this is beyond belief.
 
In the immediate aftermath I had two recurring daydreams. Both involved tracking down and punching people. Duckenfield was one, that vile chancer Graham Kelly was the other. How the FA have got away with this is beyond belief.

It's "who you know", isn't it? Simple as - being in bed (perhaps literally, who knows?) with "the right" people.

As the count rightly says, may this bring you some relief.
 
Yes, some relief hopefully, but hard to get peace. Kelly? Is he still around?

Yes, although he 'got ill' round about when he was due to be called to give evidence at the inquest, and hasn't been seen in public since then.
 
It infuriated me when some praised the "dignity" of his response to the situation at the time. All I saw and heard was an overfed, overpromoted nonentity frozen in the media headlights and probably terrifed of having his own feet held to the fire over it all.
 
Yes. And then there's his sidekick, Glen Kirton - fit and well, as far as I know - who had the brass neck to tell the inquiry that either as a fan or an FA official he was not aware on the day 'of safety problems at the ground and did not have any concerns on this front'. Unbelievable.
 
Here's Kirton's statements to the Trubunal 2 years ago. Still makes me sick. 1981 was the first sign...

Hillsborough inquest hears police gave ‘entirely false’ story about a forced gate
FA head of external affairs at time of disaster says police story attributes ‘a lot more than partial blame’ to Liverpool supporters

Wednesday 19 November 2014 09.38 EST Last modified on Tuesday 26 April 2016 14.40 EDT
The inquest into the Hillsborough disaster, in which 96 people died, has heard that South Yorkshire police put out an “entirely false” story during the afternoon of the incident, which was then broadcast by the BBC, saying that Liverpool supporters had caused the lethal crush at the football ground by forcing a gate open.

Glen Kirton, the Football Association’s head of external affairs at the time of the 1989 FA Cup semi-final between Liverpool and Nottingham Forest, told the inquest that the police officer in command of the match, Chief Superintendent David Duckenfield, said a gate had been forced and that there had been “an inrush” of Liverpool fans that had “caused casualties”.

Kirton said he heard Duckenfield state this version of events at 3.15pm on the day, 15 April 1989, in the police control box, where Kirton and the FA’s then secretary, Graham Kelly, accompanied by the Sheffield Wednesday secretary, Graham Mackrell, had gone. Kirton said they were seeking accurate information from the police about what was happening as the disaster unfolded and why the match had been stopped at 3.06pm.

In an account he made the following day, Kirton wrote: “Chief Superintendent Duckenfield told us that a gate had been forced, and there had been an inrush of Liverpool supporters that had caused casualties.”

In fact, the jury has heard, Duckenfield himself had ordered a large exit gate, gate C, to be opened next to the turnstiles at the Leppings Lane end of the ground, and allowed a large number of Liverpool supporters in to alleviate a crush which had built up outside. The incoming people were not directed away from the tunnel leading to the two central pens of the Leppings Lane terrace in which the 96 died and hundreds were injured.

Robert McRobbie, who was in the control box as an off-duty chief inspector wanting to learn about football match policing, told the court he heard no discussion about where the supporters would go, when Duckenfield gave the order for them to be allowed in en masse through the exit gate.
Advertisement

Duckenfield, Kirton said, pointed to the CCTV monitors when he said Liverpool fans had forced the gate, but Kirton could not say what specifically Duckenfield was pointing to. From the police control box, Kirton said he could see supporters carrying injured or dead people on advertising hoardings across the pitch, and that during five minutes in the control box from 3.15pm he did not hear Duckenfield or anyone else giving instructions in response. Asked by Christina Lambert QC, counsel to coroner Lord Justice Goldring, what his impression was of what he saw on the pitch, Kirton replied: “Chaotic.”

Ten minutes after Duckenfield told them the gate had been forced, at 3.25pm John Motson, the BBC’s commentator for the semi-final, reported on a live broadcast that one of the outside gates had been broken and non-ticket holders had forced their way in. Then at 3.40pm, the court was told, Alan Green, commentating on the match for BBC Radio 2, broadcast that there were unconfirmed reports that a door had been broken down at the Liverpool supporters’ end.

At 4.30pm, Green broadcast again, saying this time that he had heard from Mackrell, who had said that at 2.50pm “there was a surge of Liverpool fans at the Leppings Lane end of the ground, that the surge comprised of about 500 Liverpool fans, and police say a gate was forced, that led to a crush in that area”.

Questioned by Rajiv Menon QC, representing 75 families whose relatives were killed in the crush, Kirton accepted that the story that a gate was forced attributed “a lot more than partial blame” for the disaster to Liverpool supporters.

In between the broadcasts, at around 3.45pm, Kirton said that Rogan Taylor, then a senior office holder in the Football Supporters Association, had told him that Liverpool fans were saying the gate had been opened by the police, and the story being reported was false. Kirton’s role included briefing the press for the FA, and he said that while he did talk to journalists during the afternoon, he could not remember whether he did or did not pass on to them that he had been told the gate was forced.

He said it was not until the South Yorkshire police chief constable, Peter Wright, gave a press conference three hours later, at 6.45pm, that he heard it confirmed that in fact the police themselves had ordered the exit gate to be opened. He said he believed Wright was ill-informed at that press conference, and received hostile questioning from the press.

“For the previous three hours,” Menon said, “this entirely false narrative had been peddled to the press unwittingly by Mr Kelly, hadn’t it?”
Kirton said he could not “pin” the broadcasts to Kelly. He said he had asked both Motson and the BBC’s producer that day who had given them the story that Liverpool fans had forced the gate, and neither could remember.

Questioned more widely about his role that day, Kirton said he was meeting and greeting Sheffield Wednesday club officials and FA guests at the showpiece semi-final occasion, hosted at Wednesday’s home ground, including at a pre-match dinner in the guest room. Menon asked him whether alcohol was served at the dinner and Kirton replied that it was. Asked about the behaviour of the Liverpool supporters, Kirton said he had seen no disorder.

“And no alcohol was consumed inside or outside the ground?” Menon asked. “Correct,” Kirton replied. “Other than in the guest room of the club, obviously,” Menon said.
Jonathan Laidlaw QC, representing the FA, asked Kirton about the evidence previously given by a police officer, Inspector Gordon Sykes.

He told the inquest that the FA, Sheffield Wednesday and South Yorkshire police were “playing Russian roulette” with fans’ lives because they must have known the Hillsborough ground was a “deathtrap”. Kirton said as an FA official he was not aware of safety problems at the ground, he did not know people had been evacuated from the Leppings Lane terrace at the 1981 semi-final due to a crushing problem, and he said Sheffield Wednesday were regarded by the FA as one of the more professionally run among the Football League’s clubs.

The FA did not regard Hillsborough as a “deathtrap”. he said.

The inquest, before a jury of seven women and four men at a converted courtroom in Warrington, continues.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...police-story-forced-gate-liverpool-supporters
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom