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Did big teams "solve" Salah?

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rurikbird

Part of the Furniture
Honorary Member
Interesting article from the Echo:

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On Sunday, Liverpool were supposed to make their big statement. The highly publicised match at Old Trafford against their fierce rivals was portrayed as make or break in terms of their bid for the Premier League title, even if that narrative was somewhat unfair. A win would've restored the gap to second place to three points, whereas a loss would have allowed Man City to legitimately claim the top spot that they've been chasing for months.

The contest came to an anticlimax though, with the match ending 0-0. Jurgen Klopp's defence remained strong throughout the game, with just five shots conceded, but the attack failed to catch fire. The Reds accumulated just one shot on target, and ultimately failed to score as a result.

Strangely though, despite desperately needing a goal or an offensive spark, arguably the most prolific scorer in the club's history ended the match on the bench. Mohamed Salah, who's the league's current joint-top scorer, as well as being a record breaker last season, was substituted on the 79th minute for Divock Origi.

The switch occurred not necessarily because Origi was the answer, but because Salah evidently wasn't. His performance against the Manchester club was reckless, loose and unthreatening, so much so that he became a hindrance to his team rather than a solution.

Worryingly though, a theme appears to have developed relative to the Egyptian's performance in the supposed 'big' matches. So far this season, the top six sides that he's featured against in the league include Arsenal (twice), Manchester United (twice), Man City (twice), Chelsea and Tottenham. In those eight matches, Salah has scored once - and that was a penalty.

This lack of influence is further emphasised when delving into his Expected Goals (xG); xG provides an insight into the underlying story behind offensive performance, rather than simply focusing on the outcome of whether the ball hit the back of the net or not. Salah's xG average per 90 in the Premier League this season across all matches is 0.54, essentially meaning that he roughly has a 54% chance of scoring in each match that he plays based on the chances he's presented with. This is bettered only by Sergio Aguero in terms of players that have played over 1500 minutes, as the Argentine posts an incredible 0.8 or 80% chance of scoring per 90.

However, the xG that Salah has posted in the 'big' matches is significantly worse. Against United at Old Trafford recently, his xG was 0.01 based on the free-kick that he hit into the stands, as that was his only shot. Before that, in the defeat to City at the Etihad, his xG was 0.13. Even when taking part in high scoring wins at Anfield, his xG still signals that he's not involved in a productive attacking sense. In the 5-1 win over Arsenal at Anfield, his xG was 0.13 excluding the penalty. In the 3-1 victory over Jose Mourinho's United, his xG was 0.02.

Interestingly, this appears to be an issue that has progressively gotten worse with time during the season. Liverpool's first two 'big' opponents earlier in the campaign were Tottenham followed by Chelsea, and Salah's underlying xG was good in both these contests. The Egyptian didn't score, but he posted 0.84 at Wembley, followed by 0.47 against Maurizio Sarri's side.Those two underlying numbers - against Spurs and Chelsea - offered hope and reassurance that although Salah wasn't scoring, he was still getting into dangerous positions and providing a threat.

Presently though, troubling the scoreboard is an issue - and so are receiving good, goalscoring chances. Ultimately, there oddly appears to be no evident pattern that could perhaps explain Salah's lack of threat in the bigger matches currently. He may have been man-marked out of one or two matches in isolation, but that wouldn't explain his underperformance on the whole. He's played in different positions, but that's a change he's coped with perfectly fine for the most part against other opposing teams. He may be facing better opponents, but not to the extent whereby he's rendered totally ineffective.

This season, perhaps top teams are simply more concerned by his quality and are thus clogging the space around him effectively. It may be that Liverpool's more pragmatic approach this season has occasionally isolated Salah in attack while placing an increased offensive burden on his shoulders. Indeed, possibly the absence of an attacking midfielder such as Phillipe Coutinho or Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain behind Salah is being felt - or potentially, it may all just be a coincidence.

It's an enigmatic problem for Klopp to solve moving forward, undoubtedly. But it looks as though Liverpool are somewhat lucky that they have to face just two more top six opponents before the end of the season, so it is not a solution in desperate need of discovery. Notably too, those opponents are Chelsea and Spurs, the two that Salah posted strong xG numbers against in September, so it will be fascinating to see how he fares at Anfield as both pressure and expectation is placed upon him to produce.
 
He's not been as explosive this season, so probably

He's still a beast
 
I think Salah needs more service, we've got zero creativity from midfield, and then the wingbacks have been either injured or out of form. He seems to be relying on a 1-2 with bobby or a crafty backheel to him to get him in at the moment.
I think we wont see the best out of him again until the fullbacks have sorted their shit out and/or Klopp addresses the no.10 problem
 
His game is all about efficiency and consistency, he's a true goal-scorer who also has all-around game – but he doesn't have the extremely wide-ranging talent of someone like Messi. So with some time for analysis and practice, good teams and good coaches can figure out how to stop him, how to force him on a weak foot, tackle, crowd him out etc. Predictability is the flip side of consistency and efficiency.

This is why last season's numbers will probably never be replicated – however with more threats from midfield I think he can still be effective against big teams and he can also learn to adjust his game to counteract the adjustments that are being made against him. This kind of ties into what Robertson said in the last interview: we have to take it as a compliment that some of the strongest teams in the world change their style to play against us and learn how to play against them – the same applies to Salah individually.

Once again, the key solution is probably to have more threats in more places.
 
I think Salah needs more service, we've got zero creativity from midfield, and then the wingbacks have been either injured or out of form. He seems to be relying on a 1-2 with bobby or a crafty backheel to him to get him in at the moment.
I think we wont see the best out of him again until the fullbacks have sorted their shit out and/or Klopp addresses the no.10 problem
I believe it's a much more to do with the change in our style of play, when is the last time you remember him on a break ? For me it's against Leicester where the ball got stuck in the water whilst he was trying to break away and he was caught by the CB after having a 5-7m start on him. Even that was a rare occasion.

You can't argue with the benefit to the team because we are top with 11 games to go ... but it has undoubtedly hurt Salah most.
 
Any team can 'solve' any opponent by having three or four players swarm around him whenever he gets the ball. What we've failed to do is react to that by having our other attacking players (especially our midfielders running forward) exploit the space those defenders have vacated. That would end that 'solution' pretty damn quickly. In the case of Salah - it happened with Owen, too - the team is so hung up about him continuing to be the main goal threat they seem to fee they must leave him to overcome such attention. But you overcome it as a team, not by playing like you did before it was there.
 
When we play the better teams we move him from the middle to the right side. That’ll have a detrimental effect on his stats.
 
I believe it's a much more to do with the change in our style of play, when is the last time you remember him on a break ? For me it's against Leicester where the ball got stuck in the water whilst he was trying to break away and he was caught by the CB after having a 5-7m start on him. Even that was a rare occasion.

You can't argue with the benefit to the team because we are top with 11 games to go ... but it has undoubtedly hurt Salah most.

It's not that we're not trying to hit teams on the break, but almost no one is foolish enough to give us this opportunity. I think Ancelotti was the first to do it effectively in the game at Naples – he had an extra defender always staying back, so even when we got an opportunity to counter, our players ran into a sky-blue wall. To our credit, under Klopp we learned how to win games where opponents sit back with 10 players behind the ball (something Rodgers and even Rafa never quite figured out) – but presently we have some problems against a "hybrid" style with active pressing and attack coupled with reinforced numbers at the back. Every team is now forced to learn and play an "anti-Liverpool" style and it's no wonder that with practice most teams are gradually becoming better at it.

What's the weakness of the "anti-Liverpool style"? I think it lies in midfield – to counter it we will need to become more like City and have 2 proper midfield playmakers (the Silva types) constantly looking for space between the lines, able to pass, create and score. Teams cannot crowd both midfield and defense, so if we have more threat from midfield, our attack will get more space – or the whole opposing team will be forced to drop deep and completely cede the initiative, which is fine with us.
 
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Agree with @gkmacca - we should be happy to let teams put 2 or 3 players around Mo and force the play through other players who will now have more gaps - but we have been lacking fluidity through Firmino, Mane & Shaq (when he has played).
 
It is interesting stats. But you must also ask "how" they solved Salah.

United has over two games had their most productive players laying extremely deep. Pogba was helping Shaw out on the left back for periods of the game. And over two games they created zip and zero of interest. They hardly string two passes together in attacking zones against us over 180 mins of football.

City was extreme deep in the Anfield game and was only there to cancel out whatever we had coming. They did a little bit better at home and won 2-1 in a game we could have got more from.

Arsenal we bid up for a hell of a show in one of the games. The other one was a bit more difficult but Salah played well and could easily had at least an assist if not for poor finishing from others.

Chelsea we drew 1-1 away, and Salah played some of his best football in first half, but struggled after the break. Don't remember but I suspect Chelsea was more aware of him in a game we had more possesion and shots on (and off) target.

Spurs away we won and dominated the chances 11-3 in shots on target, although Salah didn't produce a lot. He looked frustrated and Poch is clever enough to have an extra eye on him.

So without making any bombastic conclusions it looks like they are very aware of him and sacrifice their own game to take him out of the game, and that means we have other openings to win these games.
 
He’s been way below last seasons level with three times the attention from opposition defences. It’s hardly rocket science
 
When we play the better teams we move him from the middle to the right side. That’ll have a detrimental effect on his stats.

Respectfully disagree. On the contrary, I reckon playing him through the middle cuts down the space available to him and neutralises his pace. As others have said, we're top of the league and one could argue from that that the proof of the pudding is in the eating, but I'm not convinced that's due to Mo playing centrally. In fact I'd be willing to argue that we'd have made more of our chances in some games, and would therefore be further ahead, if we'd kept last season's shape. Teams knew perfectly well what we were doing last season but they still couldn't stop us. IMO we need to get back to it, pronto.
 
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I think keeping him on the right restricts him more. At least centrally he can drift to either flank. It’s harder to double/treble mark him when he’s roaming as the opposition have to be wary of who’s responsibility it is to pick him up.
 
We'll have to agree to differ then. As far as roaming goes, the front three were doing that to great effect last season. It really isn't a question of "keeping" Salah on the right. It's more a matter of that being his starting position. This season we've "fixed" what wasn't broke, and that's never something I'm happy to see.
 
The burden on the front three is massive. Where we historically had full backs and midfielders who chipped in with goals, and even CBs that could pop up with the odd one, we now have a team that scores no goals from outside the box and if the front three have an off day or are well-handled we struggle.
 
Respectfully disagree. On the contrary, I reckon playing him through the middle cuts down the space available to him and neutralises his pace. As others have said, we're top of the league and one could argue from that that the proof of the pudding is in the eating, but I'm not convinced that's due to Mo playing centrally. In fact I'd be willing to argue that we'd have made more of our chances in some games, and would therefore be further ahead, if we'd kept last season's shape.

I probably have to disagree with your disagreement 🙂. 4-2-3-1 has been a life-saver this season, we won almost all games we used it in, while 4-3-3 has been pretty inconsistent. Here are the stats by formation:

4-3-3: 9 wins, 6 draws, 3 losses
4-2-3-1: 10 wins, 1 draw (Leicester), 0 losses
Other (mostly 4-2-2-2): 4 wins, 0 draws, 1 loss (Red Star)

Obviously I understand the point that we played most of the games against the strongest opponents with 4-3-3, which explains a large part of the difference in results. But our results with 4-2-3-1 and other systems that mostly used Salah up top have been almost perfect; it's was impossible to improve on those. And I do think Klopp should have switched to 4-2-3-1 much earlier against United – to be fair, I'm sure he would have done exactly that if it wasn't for Firmino's injury.
 
Interesting post as ever from you Rurik and I see where you're coming from, but (very fairly) you yourself point out the doubt at the heart of your own argument, namely the difference in quality of opposition (which itself begs the question why Klopp has persisted with 4-3-3 in the tougher games - it's almost as if he himself thinks that's what enables us to be at our most dangerous when we need to be 😉). In any case, even when we go 4-2-3-1 I'd prefer to see Mo wide right so he doesn't get clogged up in that central area, and I can't help wondering whether that's what might have happened if our central striking resources had been stronger or in better form. If we're going to persist with 4-2-3-1 we need to get a top-class spearhead in and let Mo get back to what he does best, IMO of course.
 
It's not that we're not trying to hit teams on the break, but almost no one is foolish enough to give us this opportunity. I think Ancelotti was the first to do it effectively in the game at Naples – he had an extra defender always staying back, so even when we got an opportunity to counter, our players ran into a sky-blue wall. To our credit, under Klopp we learned how to win games where opponents sit back with 10 players behind the ball (something Rodgers and even Rafa never quite figured out) – but presently we have some problems against a "hybrid" style with active pressing and attack coupled with reinforced numbers at the back. Every team is now forced to learn and play an "anti-Liverpool" style and it's no wonder that with practice most teams are gradually becoming better at it.

What's the weakness of the "anti-Liverpool style"? I think it lies in midfield – to counter it we will need to become more like City and have 2 proper midfield playmakers (the Silva types) constantly looking for space between the lines, able to pass, create and score. Teams cannot crowd both midfield and defense, so if we have more threat from midfield, our attack will get more space – or the whole opposing team will be forced to drop deep and completely cede the initiative, which is fine with us.

I agree with having the "between the lines" players as an important point. In the transitional phase, when we manage to play through the opposition press, or when they lose the ball high up, finding someone in that space who can turn/run with the ball is key. Then the opposition is stretched. They might sit back a bit, but at least then we can create 4 on 3's or similar.
 
It's cos we've played a more controlled style of football instead of the heavy metal gegenpress that we played to such devastating effect last season. There was also the element of surprise too. And then there were the exertions from the WC which took him a bit of time to slowly get into the season.
 
It's a tricky thing when you're the main man, and not scoring gets hyped out of all proportion. It's hard to say to that player, 'Look, you're being followed by three or more players, use that to help your teammates score'. It won't be for long - you're just basically wrecking that tactical plan for the opposition - and the player can then start reaping the rewards. But to get them to go through that even for a few games is a toughie. But I think that's what needs to happen.
 
He's just a fraction off the amazing standards of last season, and I also think our more controlled possession dominating footy this season means he is hardily ever running into the acres of space that frequently opened up for him last year. There were times last year though when teams were already targeting him, that he was surrounded by 4 players and he miraculously did evade their attentions and wriggle into goal scoring positions. That one were he had players falling on their arses after about 3 changes of direction with the ball; that goal against Spurs, where he did similarly. And then there were more of those goals near the edge of the area on the right hand side where he shapes the ball high into the left corner (such as against Roma) which he hasn't been scoring this season, but were something he had in the locker right back in his career.
 
He's just a fraction off the amazing standards of last season, and I also think our more controlled possession dominating footy this season means he is hardily ever running into the acres of space that frequently opened up for him last year. There were times last year though when teams were already targeting him, that he was surrounded by 4 players and he miraculously did evade their attentions and wriggle into goal scoring positions. That one were he had players falling on their arses after about 3 changes of direction with the ball; that goal against Spurs, where he did similarly. And then there were more of those goals near the edge of the area on the right hand side where he shapes the ball high into the left corner (such as against Roma) which he hasn't been scoring this season, but were something he had in the locker right back in his career.

That's part of it, yeah, but typically all this stuff that he's "been figured out" is a bit risible.

It's always after an entire season, this "figuring out" stuff. Like there's a fucking moratorium on any cognitive processes during a season, and only over summer can anyone actually start thinking "Hang on, that cunt at Liverpool, Salah whatsisface, scored 40-odd fucking goals! We need to do something about that!"

Players are deffo doubling up on him, and have had a bit longer to "figure him out" sure, but he's also maybe not playing at the same ridiculously high level?

And also we're not moving the ball as quickly and accurately to him; he's hardly received a quick ball to chase all season, whereas he scored quite a few "over the top" goals last season. There's also the fact that Firmino isn't playing anywhere near as well or consistently as last season, and as a team we are pressing less aggressively and playing a more controlled style of football.

None of this helps Salah.
 
I probably have to disagree with your disagreement 🙂. 4-2-3-1 has been a life-saver this season, we won almost all games we used it in, while 4-3-3 has been pretty inconsistent. Here are the stats by formation:

4-3-3: 9 wins, 6 draws, 3 losses
4-2-3-1: 10 wins, 1 draw (Leicester), 0 losses
Other (mostly 4-2-2-2): 4 wins, 0 draws, 1 loss (Red Star)

Obviously I understand the point that we played most of the games against the strongest opponents with 4-3-3, which explains a large part of the difference in results. But our results with 4-2-3-1 and other systems that mostly used Salah up top have been almost perfect; it's was impossible to improve on those. And I do think Klopp should have switched to 4-2-3-1 much earlier against United – to be fair, I'm sure he would have done exactly that if it wasn't for Firmino's injury.
Very interesting. Does anyone know offhand (or where to find the information) on what formations we played against the top teams last season ? Because I think we had a much better record against them than this.
 
We'll have to agree to differ then. As far as roaming goes, the front three were doing that to great effect last season. It really isn't a question of "keeping" Salah on the right. It's more a matter of that being his starting position. This season we've "fixed" what wasn't broke, and that's never something I'm happy to see.


I sort of agree here... Talking about Salah not contributing as much nor scoring as often is true but Firmino also and Mane.

We are defensively far superior but going forward we have been lacking that spark and I don't think it's due to all three forwards lacking form all season, we have changed something we possibly/probably shouldn't have.

On the very bright side, I reckon we still got it and moreover we are top of the fucking league and in with a shout... that's a change i like...

let's see where we get to.
 
Salah has had chances in these game against the big teams but failed to convert anything. Its more likely he has bottled it / over tries and then fails.
 
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