Everybody remembers that line from Robocop
Dear Rafa fans
- Thread starter Rosco
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Everybody remembers that line from Robocop
So we spent the 6th most, which means we should only have got to the quarters on average?
His record of winners, last 16, finalists, quarters, quarters suggests he's done better than he should have.
You should really stick to just going on about his league performances, there's way more reason to attack that. There's no justification for attacking his ability in getting results in European Competition. He was consistently(ok, not totally consistent, but close enough) great at getting results.
Didn't we get knocked out in a semi final?
Did we? We could have done, either way, his record in Europe can't really be knocked.
It's pure WANKER-ISM to deride all the fun we had on Tuesdays and Wednesdays for FIVE YEARS. He was no Magician, made plenty of fuck-ups but he was our best manager in 20 years and I'll take two CL finals in the next three years any day of the week. JESUS, Rafa had his flaws but if you want to deride my memory of Istanbul and all the games that led up to it (where Rafa was brilliant, and not lucky), then go support Everton, United or Mouriniho's Chelsea (whom we beat), as they will quickly agree with you.
Fair enough, had thought it was the quarters against Chelsea. It further backs up the point that Rafa helped us overachieve in Europe.
Not sure about that. When we got to Athens, I think Dirk Kuyt was our record buy. H and G and the big purchases came in the summer after Athens.
Yes, Nobody should be judged on a single run in a cup competition. But when a team is consistently making good runs in a competition over a number of years, then maybe there is something good being done. I do agree that the cup runs cannot be 100% attributed to Rafa alone. There are numerous factors - Rafa, Steven Gerrard, Quality of other players ( related to wages and coaching), and other factors which cannot be captured using variables like self belief, desire, luck, Anfield atmosphere etc.
But to deny the role of Rafa or not accounting for this role in our success in European competition is selective use of statistics - it is biased analysis.
Yes, there is. The luck factor is diminished by our performances in the following seasons. There was obviously some luck, but it's not as much as some have made out. If it was a one off, you could put more of it down to luck.
We DID get lucky in the final... Traore's goalline clearance, Shev's double sitter, etc... Of course we did. You don't get back into a game you're losing 0-3 to AC Milan without a large slice of luck. That said, our getting there, though also tinged with some lucky breaks - Ibra's miss in Turin, Gudjonsen's howler, etc - was down to some outstanding tactical performances and strategies... Juventus in both legs particularly stands out. And though it wasn't pretty, the Chelsea semi-final went EXACTLY as Rafa planned it.
We were lucky to win it, yes. But we also deserved it, once we won it. You don't get past Juve, Chelsea and Milan on luck alone.
We were lucky to win it, yes. But we also deserved it, once we won it. You don't get past Juve, Chelsea and Milan on luck alone.
That applies a lot less, if at all, when the record stretches over a number of seasons. Someone with a consistent Cup record has proven their ability to counteract those variables you list.
Apropos 2005, don't forget also there were some very dodgy decisions during the first half that one could argue made Milan a bit lucky as far as the score was concerned, even though they clearly played very well. But this is all weirdly naive - if you can go back and look at ANY campaign that ends up in winning a title or a cup and you can't find any incidents that might have gone another way, you're not looking hard enough. (Isn't that right, Sir Geoff Hurst?)
I agree with most people on most of this... But Ross has a couple of valid points that his vitriole drowns out, and I don't understand why people can't see that.
I think most of us can and do, old pal. It's like you say - they get drowned out, not only by Ross' exaggerations but also by the responses those bring out.
To deny what Rafa achieved is just a sign of ignorance. yeah im glad he's gone and think he had to go but he did some great things while he was here. As well as all thats been said he also made us the Number 1 team in europe. That's no small achievement at all. He is a very good manager, but seems better suited to cup competitions than the league.
Yes, yes it is. Now try and knock that bit of reason into your fellow countryman. Because like every troll he's being a cock end.
As I've said before, if you have to resort to reasoned debate with the cretins, you've lost!
Thats not what I said! Ross is being a grade A cretin across numerous subjects and frankly I'm concerned that people are even bothering to have reasoned debate with him - your post was reasoned debate.
Reasoned debate with a cretin means they've won cos they've trolled you!
I think everyone agrees with some parts of what he's saying.
Yep.
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