Darren Fletcher

[Squiggles]

The change in Darren Fletcher has been quite remarkable. Several seasons ago he was mocked by most supporters for being inadequate compared to his world-class team-mates, but since then he's established himself as a key tool in United's armoury. His absence was not the reason they lost tonight - too many of his 'world-class' colleagues fail to show up for that to be valid, IMO,  but you couldn't help but feel United needed someone in the middle of the park who could keep it simple, make the right decisions, and exert some influence. Anderson' was shown up today, his effectiveness is greatly reduced when partnered with Carrick instead of Fletcher, who all too often tonight looking for the 'killer pass' but it never paid off, and his reluctance to change showed a distinct lack of inexperience.  It was Giggs though who was most at fault, drafted in as a replacement, he looked off the pace from the first whistle and it was a huge surprised to see him walk out for the second half -  the end of Giggs against top opposition? Maybe.

All of these individuals mentioned were thoroughly outclassed by Iniesta and Xavi, but so key was Fletcher in his teams destruction of Arsenal - who despite the gap in talent do share certain qualities with Barca - which makes you wonder what would've happened had Fletcher not been harshly suspended for this tie.

 

[SaintGeorge67]

They would have lost.

 

[Rafiagra]

Let's just say they'd have won and laugh 😀

 

[Insignificance]

[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=33811.msg877092#msg877092 date=1243464488]
The change in Darren Fletcher has been quite remarkable. Several seasons ago he was mocked by most supporters for being inadequate compared to his world-class team-mates, but since then he's established himself as a key tool in United's armoury. His absence was not the reason they lost tonight - too many of his 'world-class' colleagues fail to show up for that to be valid, IMO, but you couldn't help but feel United needed someone in the middle of the park who could keep it simple, make the right decisions, and exert some influence. Anderson' was shown up today, his effectiveness is greatly reduced when partnered with Carrick instead of Fletcher, who all too often tonight looking for the 'killer pass' but it never paid off, and his reluctance to change showed a distinct lack of inexperience. It was Giggs though who was most at fault, drafted in as a replacement, he looked off the pace from the first whistle and it was a huge surprised to see him walk out for the second half - the end of Giggs against top opposition? Maybe.

All of these individuals mentioned were thoroughly outclassed by Inniesta and Xaxi, but so key was Fletcher in his teams destruction of Arsenal -who despite the gap in talent do share similar traits to Barca - which does make you wonder what would've happened had Fletcher not been harshly suspended for this tie.
[/quote]

Please please please tell me your takin the piss now!!

 

[Squiggles]

Not at all - Fletcher was a key absence tonight whether you see it or not.

Ferguson post Arsenal:

"You saw his performance tonight -- in all the big games Darren has always been a key player for us. It depends on who the opponents will be in the final, but you would think that Darren would have been figuring very largely in it."

Very good player who's still underrated.

 

[Ryan]

I think it's utter foolishness to suggest Fletcher's presence would have made a massive difference to the end result. How do you know? Sure he'd have added more to the utterly anonymous Anderson, but enough to stop Xavi, Iniesta and Messi passing triangles all round them? He's not Franz fucking Beckenbaeur.

Still, he's a quality footballer, and is vital to United's midfield. "No more than a bits and pieces player" claimed Anita a few months ago. Well Anita, he's first choice central midfielder for the current World Champions, so you might want to think twice.

He'd have made a difference tonight, but not one big enough to alter the scoreline.

Ferguson got it wrong. Anderson was lost. Carrick got outnumbered in midfield which left Ferdinand aiming long ball after long ball to fucking no one,. And playing Ronaldo with his back to goal, when there was a wide open Sylvinho ready to the raped down the right flank was a masterstroke in shit-decision making.

You knocked yourself off your own perch Fergie.

 

[mark1975]

[quote author=Ryan link=topic=33811.msg877123#msg877123 date=1243468862]
I think it's utter foolishness to suggest Fletcher's presence would have made a massive difference to the end result. How do you know? Sure he'd have added more to the utterly anonymous Anderson, but enough to stop Xavi, Iniesta and Messi passing triangles all round them? He's not Franz fucking Beckenbaeur.

Still, he's a quality footballer, and is vital to United's midfield. "No more than a bits and pieces player" claimed Anita a few months ago. Well Anita, he's first choice central midfielder for the current World Champions, so you might want to think twice.

He'd have made a difference tonight, but not one big enough to alter the scoreline.

Ferguson got it wrong. Anderson was lost. Carrick got outnumbered in midfield which left Ferdinand aiming long ball after long ball to fucking no one,. And playing Ronaldo with his back to goal, when there was a wide open Sylvinho ready to the raped down the right flank was a masterstroke in shit-decision making.

You knocked yourself off your own perch Fergie.
[/quote]

I think United's tendencies to get caught up such comparisons as "we play better football than you" shouldn't be underestimated. Too many players out there over complicated things, while Barca seemed to have carbon copied our own game in the way the pressed high up the pitch.

Fletcher probably would have been a welcome local who would have kept it simple and defended and attacked with heart, I think he's a massively underated player.

 

[peekay]

[quote author=Ryan link=topic=33811.msg877123#msg877123 date=1243468862]
I think it's utter foolishness to suggest Fletcher's presence would have made a massive difference to the end result. How do you know? Sure he'd have added more to the utterly anonymous Anderson, but enough to stop Xavi, Iniesta and Messi passing triangles all round them? He's not Franz fucking Beckenbaeur.

Still, he's a quality footballer, and is vital to United's midfield. "No more than a bits and pieces player" claimed Anita a few months ago. Well Anita, he's first choice central midfielder for the current World Champions, so you might want to think twice.

He'd have made a difference tonight, but not one big enough to alter the scoreline.

Ferguson got it wrong. Anderson was lost. Carrick got outnumbered in midfield which left Ferdinand aiming long ball after long ball to fucking no one,. And playing Ronaldo with his back to goal, when there was a wide open Sylvinho ready to the raped down the right flank was a masterstroke in shit-decision making.

You knocked yourself off your own perch Fergie.
[/quote]

Agreed. There is only one player who could have potentially disrupted the Barca triumvirate on his own tonite. Fletcher is a good player but he aint no

 

[Farkmaster]

[quote author=Ryan link=topic=33811.msg877123#msg877123 date=1243468862]
I think it's utter foolishness to suggest Fletcher's presence would have made a massive difference to the end result. How do you know? Sure he'd have added more to the utterly anonymous Anderson, but enough to stop Xavi, Iniesta and Messi passing triangles all round them? He's not Franz fucking Beckenbaeur.

Still, he's a quality footballer, and is vital to United's midfield. "No more than a bits and pieces player" claimed Anita a few months ago. Well Anita, he's first choice central midfielder for the current World Champions, so you might want to think twice.

He'd have made a difference tonight, but not one big enough to alter the scoreline.

Ferguson got it wrong. Anderson was lost. Carrick got outnumbered in midfield which left Ferdinand aiming long ball after long ball to fucking no one,. And playing Ronaldo with his back to goal, when there was a wide open Sylvinho ready to the raped down the right flank was a masterstroke in shit-decision making.

You knocked yourself off your own perch Fergie.
[/quote]

"World Champions"

 

[The_Prof]

Without Fletcher, United will lose. Something like that anyway.

 

[Ryan]

[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=33811.msg877138#msg877138 date=1243470793]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=33811.msg877123#msg877123 date=1243468862]
I think it's utter foolishness to suggest Fletcher's presence would have made a massive difference to the end result. How do you know? Sure he'd have added more to the utterly anonymous Anderson, but enough to stop Xavi, Iniesta and Messi passing triangles all round them? He's not Franz fucking Beckenbaeur.

Still, he's a quality footballer, and is vital to United's midfield. "No more than a bits and pieces player" claimed Anita a few months ago. Well Anita, he's first choice central midfielder for the current World Champions, so you might want to think twice.

He'd have made a difference tonight, but not one big enough to alter the scoreline.

Ferguson got it wrong. Anderson was lost. Carrick got outnumbered in midfield which left Ferdinand aiming long ball after long ball to fucking no one,. And playing Ronaldo with his back to goal, when there was a wide open Sylvinho ready to the raped down the right flank was a masterstroke in shit-decision making.

You knocked yourself off your own perch Fergie.
[/quote]

"World Champions"
[/quote]

You got a problem?

 

[Farkmaster]

[quote author=Ryan link=topic=33811.msg877149#msg877149 date=1243472503]
You got a problem?
[/quote]

No, the club world cup has a problem - no one takes it seriously except for you apparently.

 

[Ryan]

[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=33811.msg877151#msg877151 date=1243473300]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=33811.msg877149#msg877149 date=1243472503]
You got a problem?
[/quote]

No, the club world cup has a problem - no one takes it seriously except for you apparently.
[/quote]

Whether it's taken seriously or not, you pretty much have to be the best team in Europe to get to play in it so the credentials of United and their players are serious.

Besides, if you're the best team in Europe, it's a given you're the best team in the World too.

 

[Farkmaster]

[quote author=Ryan link=topic=33811.msg877152#msg877152 date=1243473695]
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=33811.msg877151#msg877151 date=1243473300]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=33811.msg877149#msg877149 date=1243472503]
You got a problem?
[/quote]

No, the club world cup has a problem - no one takes it seriously except for you apparently.
[/quote]

Whether it's taken seriously or not, you pretty much have to be the best team in Europe to get to play in it so the credentials of United and their players are serious.

Besides, if you're the best team in Europe, it's a given you're the best team in the World too.
[/quote]

Right, but they aren't the best team in Europe.

Your general point is sound, although, as Barca is a team that can deal with having technical but frequently suspect defenders, due to the rest of their team, I think Man U's back line and depth of ability in attack lets them deal with a sub par, but still good midfield. When they've come up against other good midfields, they've done poorly this year.

 

[Glock21]

Lets make it this way children, with Flasher, they will lose even more. They let Barca play their game unlike Chelsea who did the job against them at Nou Camp. You can't play Final with one fucking game plan. Had we been in the Final we'd have won the game 2-1 or 2-0. Enough said.