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Crossing Jordan?

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rurikbird

rurikbird

Part of the Furniture
Honorary Member
Apologies for the title. In my defense, I have plenty of bad influence from some of the posters here.

Anyway, I thought Spurs was the first game when Henderson looked like his pre-injury self. Not just doing the basics, but actually creating chances and playmaking – something Jordan is very capable of doing (wasn't he our top assist man last season?), but since the injury that side of his game had all but disappeared, until yesterday. He was more combative than usual too, even outshining Can in that department for once. Maybe he got some swagger back from that win in Germany with the national team and facing a few of his England teammates in the very next game – but I very much hope this game signals a next phase in his recovery, not just a one-off performance.
 
rurikbird said:
Apologies for the title. In my defense, I have plenty of bad influence from some of the posters here.

Anyway, I thought Spurs was the first game when Henderson looked like his pre-injury self. Not just doing the basics, but actually creating chances and playmaking – something Jordan is very capable of doing (wasn't he our top assist man last season?), but since the injury that side of his game had all but disappeared, until yesterday. He was more combative than usual too, even outshining Can in that department for once. Maybe he got some swagger back from that win in Germany with the national team and facing a few of his England teammates in the very next game – but I very much hope this game signals a next phase in his recovery, not just a one-off performance.
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Yep a much improved game from him, still a way to go, but getting closer to his true form. You mention the international break, but I think it's more to do with the fact he was facing his biggest rivals for the international team in Delli Ali and Dier, they've taken all the plaudits recently, and I think he was determined to show himself in good stead against them.
 
I actually sat through the match on Saturday wondering whether his absence was key to the particular capitulation against palace.

His work rate and energy and shielding of the back four / occupying of space Alli was after was impressive.

He looked much improved against any of previous performances post injury
 
HC said:
I actually sat through the match on Saturday wondering whether his absence was key to the particular capitulation against palace.
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It 100% was, we'd have won the league if he didn't get that stupid red, he was so sorely missed against both Chelsea and Palace.
 
IMO he's a better footballer than Dier, with more to his all-round game. If he stays fit he ought to be ahead of Dier for an England place, though with Hodgson picking the side one can't be confident of sensible decisions being made.
 
Judge Jules said:
IMO he's a better footballer than Dier, with more to his all-round game. If he stays fit he ought to be ahead of Dier for an England place, though with Hodgson picking the side one can't be confident of sensible decisions being made.
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Dier was a full back for them last season wasn't he? Has he played in midfield for Spurs all season?
 
Dave: Dier originally played CB and didn't impress. They switched him to RB as you say, and the results weren't much if any better. I think he has played all this season in midfield, and in fairness he's been a revelation there compared with his previous failures, but Henderson is more mobile and IMO the more constructive player.
 
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hendo is way down the pecking order (for form).


Drinkwater is playing simialr to that of hendo was doing for us when we were going for the league.
 
I must have been at a different game, Henderson was just as bad as he has been since the injury and he thought so as well judging from the number of times he could be seen berating himself.

The crowd thought so, too - the groans from the Kop when he gave the ball away time after time must have been audible on the telly.

He seems to be trying to speed up play more, I guess on instructions from Klopp, but his way is to treat the ball like a grenade and get rid of it as soon as it arrives. His pass completion stats must be terrible.

He is not a playmaker, never will be but his strengths used to be his running game, getting into space with forward runs or putting out fires all over the pitch. That worked alongside Gerrard who could control the tempo and make the big plays but with Milner and to a lesser extent Can alongside him, he has regressed to the headless chicken impression he assumed when he first arrived at the club. He is trying to be a playmaker but his version is to float first time dinked crosses into the box which are laughably easy to defend.

The entire centre midfield has to be reconstructed, Henderson can still be part of that but he needs better players on the ball around him and to get back to being a water carrier, because that's all he can do.
 
Yeah, Henderson played well, as everyone who watched the game has commented on. He wasn't helped by Can and Milner much either, so his performance was even more impressive given that those two were mediocre to poor.

He's never going to win games on his own, by sheer will or force of personality or amazing skill. But at his best, he's a consistent seven out of ten player and was easily the best Liverpool midfielder on display. Probably outshone by Dembele, but that's not a crime.
 
Judge Jules said:
IMO he's a better footballer than Dier, with more to his all-round game. If he stays fit he ought to be ahead of Dier for an England place, though with Hodgson picking the side one can't be confident of sensible decisions being made.
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Dier does the simple things better, though, and seems more aware of what is around him. Henderson seems better when he doesn't have to think much. If he could back himself a bit more in the final third ...
 
Judge Jules said:
Wouldn't disagree with that as far as it goes, but IMO the difference isn't great enough to outweigh the advantages Henderson brings to the team.
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Dier always drops deep to play as the 3rd CB when Tottenham push their full backs high up the pitch. He's done a great job and has developed greatly this season but I dont think he brings much to the team offensively but they have certainly found the right balance in the team with him in it.
 
manwithnoname said:
Yeah, Henderson played well, as everyone who watched the game has commented on. He wasn't helped by Can and Milner much either, so his performance was even more impressive given that those two were mediocre to poor.

He's never going to win games on his own, by sheer will or force of personality or amazing skill. But at his best, he's a consistent seven out of ten player and was easily the best Liverpool midfielder on display. Probably outshone by Dembele, but that's not a crime.
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Dembele has been fantastic this season
 
I don't think the slightly deeper role Henderson is playing (or trying to play) does him many favours. He needs to be pushed further on where his ability to get up and support the attack will be beneficial and his running would give Coutinho another target for his passes. I'm sure that what we need most in the summer is a proper sitting midfielder, ideally a mix of Alonso and Mascherano, whom we've never adequately replaced. Easy to say, harder to find, I suspect.
 
Actonian said:
I don't think the slightly deeper role Henderson is playing (or trying to play) does him many favours. He needs to be pushed further on where his ability to get up and support the attack will be beneficial and his running would give Coutinho another target for his passes. I'm sure that what we need most in the summer is a proper sitting midfielder, ideally a mix of Alonso and Mascherano, whom we've never adequately replaced. Easy to say, harder to find, I suspect.
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Yeah, it's pretty clear that one of his main attributes is that relentless, powerful running ability, and ability to close down space very quickly. His passing is also underrated; both long and short.

That said, I do agree with those who suggest he could play in the holding role; but it is at the detriment to the above, obviously and when that's one of his few genuine qualities, it seems a shame to not use them.

I still think we need another CM who is capable of playing DM/ holding.
 
HC said:
I actually sat through the match on Saturday wondering whether his absence was key to the particular capitulation against palace.

His work rate and energy and shielding of the back four / occupying of space Alli was after was impressive.

He looked much improved against any of previous performances post injury
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This was mentioned by many at the time .. with good reason.
 
davud graham said:
I didn't think he was anything special on Saturday but he was a lot better than Milner and Can who were both hopeless.
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He ran more than usual but his passes were still hit and miss. You could see him trying to measure some long balls from deep and they all went to their keeper. Happened far too much for my liking.

He was also having some laughs with the spurs players which irks me. He should take a look at how Lallana squared up to Alli. He is our captain and I prefer the sulky aggressive Gerrard attitude anytime than the friendly banters, especially in big games.

Dier was very impressive with his accurate passing from deep i thought. Alli almost got in off one of his long passes and that's what spurs have been great at all season - Alli, Son, Kane making runs and getting onto accurate long balls. It got them a fair bit of goals.
 
I'm not sure how many were really paying close attention to how Henderson played in the first half in the opposing half. A few of the really subtle touches he had were very pleasing and got our attacks flowing quickly when needed. They weren't attention-grabbing dribbles or defence-splitting passes, but Gerrard in his prime was doing these sorts of touches a lot - instinctive first-time short passes that found an open man in space and on the move, that sped up our attacks. Defensively, he had to do more work as well with Milner seemingly leaden footed the whole game.

Henderson's form has been flat this season so I can understand the general apathy about him, but I think this game was him back closer to his level in 13/14.
 
hamstrung_pigeon said:
I'm not sure how many were really paying close attention to how Henderson played in the first half in the opposing half. A few of the really subtle touches he had were very pleasing and got our attacks flowing quickly when needed. They weren't attention-grabbing dribbles or defence-splitting passes, but Gerrard in his prime was doing these sorts of touches a lot - instinctive first-time short passes that found an open man in space and on the move, that sped up our attacks. Defensively, he had to do more work as well with Milner seemingly leaden footed the whole game.

Henderson's form has been flat this season so I can understand the general apathy about him, but I think this game was him back closer to his level in 13/14.
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His best game in some time now. Was really great to see.
 
TBH Foxy, that makes you sound more superstitious than they are. 😛

That said, I cringe a bit at those interviews too. The players involved always sound as though they're trying to convince themselves more than anyone.
 
FoxForceFive said:
I fucking HATE it when players do these "I'm getting back to my best/we've turned a corner/we can now get fourth place/we're gonna challenge for the league" interviews.

They're invariably a portent of shite to come. I'm not superstitious, but most players seem to be, how have they not heard of tempting fate?
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I suppose some of them feel the need to try and put as positive a spin on things as possible and maybe as captain Henderson feels it's part of his job.

It's about showing determination, positivity, letting the fans know they aren't going to settle, but strive for the maximum..... all that bollocks.

I do think from a management/ leadership level it can have value (Klopp, Mourinho (at his best), Ferguson), but a lot of player chat is "Let's kick on, corner turned, points up for grabs, one game at a time, momentum, belief, blah blah blah"
 
manwithnoname said:
I suppose some of them feel the need to try and put as positive a spin on things as possible and maybe as captain Henderson feels it's part of his job.

It's about showing determination, positivity, letting the fans know they aren't going to settle, but strive for the maximum..... all that bollocks.

I do think from a management/ leadership level it can have value (Klopp, Mourinho (at his best), Ferguson), but a lot of player chat is "Let's kick on, corner turned, points up for grabs, one game at a time, momentum, belief, blah blah blah"
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A degree of positivity is probably necessary to counteract the natural cynicism that supporters have. There is no better place than this forum to see regular indulgence in negativity or 'reality' depending on your frame of mind.

Ultimately it's better to have some communication from the club than silence. If the club says nothing we moan, if the club says something we shoot it down or dismiss it as phony.
 
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