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Could we be next ?

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Frogfish

Gone to Redcafe
Member
English teams seem to the ones in the main that are using money & contracts to attract young stars from around the world. Chelsea were out of line, but could we, United or Arsenal be next for a ban ? Did we learn anything from Ziege episode ? Thank God we don't have a Kenyon.

Liverpool

Damien Plessis (from Lyon)
Daniel Ayala (Seville)
Christopher Buchtmann (Dortmund)
Gerardo Bruna (Real Madrid)
Francisco Duran (Malaga)
Daniel Pacheco (Barcelona)
Martin Hansen (Brondby)
Nikola Saric (Herfolge)
Vincent Weijl (AZ Alkmaar)

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...Liverpool-Chelsea.html?ITO=1490#ixzz0Q8OdNTIT

Manchester United

Fabio da Silva (Fluminense)
Rafael da Silva (Fluminense)
Federico Macheda (Lazio)
Ron-Robert Zieler (FC Koln)
Davide Petrucci (Roma)
Magnus Eikrem (Molde)
Rodrigo Possebon (Internacional)
Paul Pogba (Le Havre)

Arsenal

Vito Mannone (Atalanta)
Fran Merida (Barcelona)
Francis Coquelin (Laval)
Pedro (Figueirense)
Sead Hajrovic (Grasshoppers)
Ignasi Miquel (Cornella)
Nacer Barazite (NEC Nijmegen)
Oghuzan Ozyakup (AZ Alkmaar)

Chelsea

Gael Kakuta (Lens)
Jeffrey Bruma (Feyenoord)
Patrick van Aanholt (PSV)
Miroslav Stoch (FC Nitra)
Philipp Prosenik (Rapid Vienna)
 
No, we do everything by the book and agree fees with the clubs if they have a contract.

The french clubs are saying these players have signed some sort of contract and are breaking them
 
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[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=35647.msg938643#msg938643 date=1252062968]
Newspaper reports say Le Havre is launching a Lens like case due to Manure's poaching of Paul Pogba.
[/quote]

Yeah. I think they are more likely to be next. Le Havre were making quite a lot of noise during the summer. I also remember someone criticizing them for bringing in brazil kids at too young an age.
 
[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=35647.msg938642#msg938642 date=1252062579]
No, we do everything by the book and agree fees with the clubs if they have a contract.

The french clubs are saying these players have signed some sort of contract and are breaking them

[/quote]

Everything by the book?

How many times do I have to remind people LFC are the only club to have been found guilty of tapping a player up by teh Premier league?!

And, to top it off the only punishment we got was a 20k fine. We paid 5.5m for Ziege when boro had offers of 8m but we matched the exact get out clause amount & he refused other clubs. We got off very lightly indeed.

We're as dirty as the rest of them.
 
[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=35647.msg938642#msg938642 date=1252062579]
No, we do everything by the book and agree fees with the clubs if they have a contract.

The french clubs are saying these players have signed some sort of contract and are breaking them

[/quote]

Ridiculous statement.
 
[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=35647.msg938642#msg938642 date=1252062579]
No, we do everything by the book and agree fees with the clubs if they have a contract.

The french clubs are saying these players have signed some sort of contract and are breaking them

[/quote]

Hope there is a hint of irony in this post!!
 
i can see the yanks rubbing their hands at this opportunity. don't have to buy anyone for 2 windows. how quickly can it be arranged?
 
[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=35647.msg938654#msg938654 date=1252064320]
[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=35647.msg938642#msg938642 date=1252062579]
No, we do everything by the book and agree fees with the clubs if they have a contract.

The french clubs are saying these players have signed some sort of contract and are breaking them

[/quote]

Everything by the book?

How many times do I have to remind people LFC are the only club to have been found guilty of tapping a player up by teh Premier league?!

And, to top it off the only punishment we got was a 20k fine. We paid 5.5m for Ziege when boro had offers of 8m but we matched the exact get out clause amount & he refused other clubs. We got off very lightly indeed.

We're as dirty as the rest of them.
[/quote]
I don't think both cases are the same, what Chelsea and soon UTD are being asked for is how they persuaded a youngmen, the guy was only 15 to break his contract with his a club who had payed and I assume bought into the country. Glad something is being done about this because it's small clubs who have put so much effort into these players are being conned out of it in such a way.
 
[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=35647.msg938654#msg938654 date=1252064320]
[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=35647.msg938642#msg938642 date=1252062579]
No, we do everything by the book and agree fees with the clubs if they have a contract.

The french clubs are saying these players have signed some sort of contract and are breaking them

[/quote]

Everything by the book?

How many times do I have to remind people LFC are the only club to have been found guilty of tapping a player up by teh Premier league?!

And, to top it off the only punishment we got was a 20k fine. We paid 5.5m for Ziege when boro had offers of 8m but we matched the exact get out clause amount & he refused other clubs. We got off very lightly indeed.

We're as dirty as the rest of them.
[/quote]

under Rafa everything is done by the book and with agreements of clubs if they have a contract.

These cases are different in that the french clubs didnt reach an agreement with Chelsea etc and claimed to have some contract which they say was breached

We're no where near as dirty as the rest of them, chelsea and United over Mikel and Ashley Cole. where has there been a case like this?
 
Why would clubs offer £8M when the minimum release fee was £5.5M?

Surely release fee clauses have to be told to the club wanting to buy, otherwise it's encouraging contact between the player and the interested party.
 
[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=35647.msg938654#msg938654 date=1252064320]
[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=35647.msg938642#msg938642 date=1252062579]
No, we do everything by the book and agree fees with the clubs if they have a contract.

The french clubs are saying these players have signed some sort of contract and are breaking them

[/quote]

Everything by the book?

How many times do I have to remind people LFC are the only club to have been found guilty of tapping a player up by teh Premier league?!

And, to top it off the only punishment we got was a 20k fine. We paid 5.5m for Ziege when boro had offers of 8m but we matched the exact get out clause amount & he refused other clubs. We got off very lightly indeed.

We're as dirty as the rest of them.
[/quote]

We may not be squeeky clean but to be honest I could never inderstand what we did wrong in the Ziege case.
 
under Rafa everything is done by the book and with agreements of clubs if they have a contract

Wouldn't that have been Rick Parry?

Afterall Benitez didn't have 'control of transfers' did he?
 
We may not be squeeky clean but to be honest I could never inderstand what we did wrong in the Ziege case

We should have only discussed fees with the club. Because we knew the exact amount of the release clause it was judged we must have got this info from elsewhere

I think there might have been some dodginess in the deal for Harry Kewell too

As you can see if these were the 2 deals that were not really above board we didn't really benefit in the long run.
 
[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=35647.msg938654#msg938654 date=1252064320]
[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=35647.msg938642#msg938642 date=1252062579]
No, we do everything by the book and agree fees with the clubs if they have a contract.

The french clubs are saying these players have signed some sort of contract and are breaking them

[/quote]

Everything by the book?

How many times do I have to remind people LFC are the only club to have been found guilty of tapping a player up by teh Premier league?!

And, to top it off the only punishment we got was a 20k fine. We paid 5.5m for Ziege when boro had offers of 8m but we matched the exact get out clause amount & he refused other clubs. We got off very lightly indeed.

We're as dirty as the rest of them.
[/quote]

Is tha true mate?
Chelsea got a fine for the cashley gate incident. In fact they have a suspended point deduction hanging over their head.

John Obi Mikel, Arnesen?
 
IIRC, didn't Ged speak to Berti Vogts about Ziege or was asking him about him and then Vogts told us he only had a minimum release clause of £5.5m so we bid the exact amount.
 
If there is no conspiracy then it is coincidental, in short time Arsenal, Chelski and soon to be Manure aswell..... you would imagine that something will be coming our way.


I wonder if they wil have the balls to challenge Reals fucking blatant constant tapping up of players??

... no didn't think so.

I also find it interesting that its two French clubs, platini is french isnt he??

FWIW i think its spot on however, why should it be that a smaller club basically finds and then trains a plauer only for a rich club to come and rob them.

Didnt we nick Pacheco??
 
This is all down to Platini.

Not so long ago he was banging on about how he was going to stop clubs 'poaching' youth team talent from abroad which was blatantly aimed at Premier League clubs. The fact this kid is French probably only compounds it.

Platini is just trying to make an example of a Premier League club and unfortunately for Chelsea, they were the first to bear the brunt.
 
How would we feel now if some club had've stolen Gerrard when he was 18?

All this poaching of young players is not right.
 
[quote author=rage link=topic=35647.msg938681#msg938681 date=1252066577]
i can see the yanks rubbing their hands at this opportunity. don't have to buy anyone for 2 windows. how quickly can it be arranged?
[/quote]
;D
Exactly what I was thinking.
 
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=35647.msg938691#msg938691 date=1252068012]
Why would clubs offer £8M when the minimum release fee was £5.5M?

Surely release fee clauses have to be told to the club wanting to buy, otherwise it's encouraging contact between the player and the interested party.
[/quote]

Nope, that's the point. The release clause in the contract, not for public consumption.

We had been nicked liaising with the agent to find out the amount & then put that exact amount in.

[quote author=peekay link=topic=35647.msg938753#msg938753 date=1252076485]
Is tha true mate?
Chelsea got a fine for the cashley gate incident. In fact they have a suspended point deduction hanging over their head.

John Obi Mikel, Arnesen?
[/quote]

Sorry chief, you may well be right. We certainly were the only club to be found guilty for an exceptionally long time.
 
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=35647.msg938691#msg938691 date=1252068012]
Why would clubs offer £8M when the minimum release fee was £5.5M?

Surely release fee clauses have to be told to the club wanting to buy, otherwise it's encouraging contact between the player and the interested party.
[/quote]

And that's what illegal. Clubs insert a minimum release to encourage bids above it but buying teams don't know what it is, that would defeat the object. Ziege told us what his was so we bid the exact amount and activated it, despite there being considerably higher bids made ergo Boro got screwed.

Didn't that show on the telly that fingered Fat Sam name us and Chelsea as tapping up Nathan Porritt? Nothing's happened since admittedly.

All clubs do what Chelsea are being accused of. Well most, us for sure.

I disagree with the whole concept of nicking other team's kids anyway, they should outlaw it. If they're good at youth development and you're not, tough shit. Get better, don't steal.
 
That system's asking for trouble if you ask me.

Of course clubs are going to risk a secret meeting/telephone call with a player if it's going to save them millions pounds.
 
A blog from Skysports


A malingering sense of paranoia has been stoked further by a feeling amongst the English elite that Fifa and Uefa are somehow in cahoots in a bid to prise corpulent and greedy Premier League fingers off the coveted UEFA Champions League trophy. Fifa president Sepp Blatter and his Uefa counterpart Michel Platini enjoy a long-standing friendship and it is the latter's germ of an idea, with regards stopping young talent being poached from indigenous surrounds, that appears to have been put into practise by the all-powerful world governing body. At this rate Chelsea's Pensioners will no longer be reduced to the stands.

In this instance, though, it would appear the conspiracy theorists are little different to those that insist Elvis is in fact still very much in the building. Just five months ago Swiss club Sion were meted out the exact same punishment for the manner in which they lured Egyptian goalkeeper Essam El Hadary from Al Ahly in similar circumstances. On the surface, the only thing "extraordinary" about Fifa's sanctions is that it is a leading English club penalised rather than a middling Swiss outfit.


That it seems implausible Fifa have acted with such steel against one of the sport's most powerful clubs says much about the shifted power in the game from those that run it to those that pay for it.

The Premier League's prising of young talent from across the globe is hardly a new occurrence, with English Academies no longer the preserve of locally sourced talent. Football is a business like any other and just as you don't expect Tesco to source their produce solely from the British Isles, top clubs have long-since scoured the market place both home and abroad. Like beleaguered farmers, those clubs that lose players they have reared with care often complain of being cheated by the food chain's top dogs. It is here where accusations of 'poaching' become widespread.

When Kakuta arrived in West London in 2007 he did so with a reputation for being one of Europe's most exciting young talents, but also with a warning from Lens. Having been at the club since the age of nine the French club were loath to allow him to leave before the fruits of considerable labour and development had expressed itself at first team level. As such the club had an agreement in place, ratified by the French Football Association, that Kakuta would sign a professional contract on his turning 16.

In today's Independent then Lens managing director Francis Collado recounts a meeting with Peter Kenyon in which he warned their agreement with Kakuta was watertight and legally-binding. When he asked his Chelsea counterpart for the transfer fee he knew Lens were entitled for their teenage prodigy, Kenyon reportedly replied: "That's not possible."

Where this deal differs to that of Manchester United's signing of Federico Macheda, which Lazio president Claudio Lotito described as being not dissimilar to the exchange in a 'cattle market', is Italian clubs cannot tie players to contracts until they are 18. In France, players cannot sign professional contracts until they are 16 so instead sign a bridging agreement - an aspirant contract - with their clubs. Once these contracts have been ratified by the French Football Association, as was the case with Kakuta, they become legally binding.

Lens president of 21 years Gervais Martel could barely contain his glee as he said: "It's a logical punishment for a club that goes around trying to turn the heads of players through their intermediaries. It was a feeble amount that Chelsea offered us for this young player when you consider his potential. The clubs must respect the rules of other countries."

Fifa's punishment has led to talk of the proverbial can of worms being opened as if such an event would lead to some cataclysmic end of the world. But is this chain of events not a good thing?

Manchester United's legal team will likely be looking over the transfer of Paul Pogba from Le Havre with sweaty palms; given the French club have said they are pursuing a "very similar case" to that put forward by Lens. The protection and preservation of the world's less illustrious clubs is paramount to football's continued growth. It is these more obscure clubs that provide roots to a game that must constantly remind itself its origins are sport not money.

Poaching or 'tapping up' has been accepted to such an extent in football it's in danger of becoming almost quaint; as much as part of the culture as replica scarves or rattles. If Fifa want to slice open football's carcass and look at its rotting organs - be that in the form of diving, poaching or any kind of corruption - I say good luck to them.


http://www.skysports.com/opinion/story/0,25212,16708_5537338,00.html
 
United now have TWO cases pending against them.

Chelsea are not alone in facing claims of illegal child trafficking, Ian Herbert detailing the Le Havre case against Manchester United over teenager Paul Pogba. “Manchester United are understood to be extremely confident that anything Pogba signed did not amount to a legally binding contract and that they were quite within their rights to pursue their player.â€

Matt Lawton then announces a second case being prepared against United. “Last night it emerged Fiorentina have filed a complaint with FIFA over United’s capture of Michele Fornasier, who joined them this summer. The difference is, though, the 16-year-old was not contracted to Fiorentina because pre-contract agreements do not exist in Italy.â€
 
That Fiorentia one is bollocks.

"We didnt have a contract or anything, but, but, but wesawhimfirstanditsNOTFAIR!"
 
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