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Championship-winning mentality

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rurikbird

Part of the Furniture
Honorary Member
Rodgers:
“I’ve seen enough and if we improve our mentality in the summer – by signing players who have that consistent winning mentality – we can then improve again, like we have done in the second half of the season.
“That’s the job of the recruitment team and the club to identify those types of players. They might not always be the best players but what we need in the second year of this project is to find a great level of consistency. There is a process of getting into the top four and becoming champions and that is consistency.
“This club didn’t win two league games in a row for over a year.
“That came earlier on in the season and when you step back and look at that, it is nowhere near good enough if you are going to succeed.
“You build a mentality in your group and you get the types of players who can be on it every single game."

Notice the highlighted phrase - "they might not always be the best players but what we need in the second year of this project is to find a great level of consistency." It's interesting that Brendan makes such an emphasis on mentality and consistency now and I believe he is right to do so.

If you look at United, they didn't always have the best players in every position. But their players always believed they SHOULD win every game and knew that no possible excuses for failure would be accepted. The difference between the top teams and us is not just the squad depth or talent, it's also the attitude. Remember how every time Brendan talked about possibly challenging for a top 4 place, the team folded in the next game? Is it really Brendan's fault for mentioning that we have some kind of ambition as a club, or is it the players' fault for being afraid to take the next step?

I think (and this is backed up by modern psychology and sociology, as far as I know) winners are not born, winning is a trainable habit. Losing is, too. That's why Arsenal become more limp and pathetic by the year, despite having a very good level of talent, a good manager, and a consistent and modern playing style. Unlike them, we have actually won some trophies in the past 8 years. But those were all cup competitions, which teach a different kind of habit compared to the one Championship-winning teams acquire: namely that if you concentrate all of your will and emotion on just a few games in the season, you can get rewarded with a win. We got so well-trained in this habit that even in our rock-bottom seasons, under Hodgson and Kenny, we retained an ability to beat any of our big rivals in a single game, despite being hopelessly behind them over the course of the season.

Championship-winning teams need to form a different habit: being able to be a little bit better than your opponent every single week. It's a different mentality; more of a controlled fire that a manager adjusts up or down depending on the opponent or importance of a particular game, rather than a fire or an explosion, where all energy is spent on one game or a short run at a crucial part of the season and then it takes long time to recover. We used to be an "explosion" team under Rafa and later; we would suffer and grind through too many 0:0 and 1:1 draws in from August to February, and then try to get on a winning run in March through May, by which time the deficit was usually too big to make up (although one season we almost did it). As the team talent level and quality was gradually getting worse after the 08-09 season, we lost the ability to go on a long run, but still could beat United or Chelsea in any given game or go on a FA Cup run.

I can see that Brendan immediately started trying to instill the Championship-oriented philosophy in his players and that came at the expense of the being able to concentrate on a "big" game to ruin the afternoon for one of the top clubs. You could still kind of see the old mentality at work in the early season games against City and United (which we were unlucky not to win), but by mid-season we indeed seemingly lost our ability to beat the top teams. The press, in their incessant questioning about Liverpool not being able to beat any team in the top 8, actually stumbled on a valid point, for a change. At roughly the same time as the team stopped giving the super-effort against the top teams, they started to be more consistent about beating the teams below. In other words, they started playing every game closer to their actual level, rather than fluctuating between extremes in performance.

I think at the moment we still have too many players who have little or no experience playing in a team with a Championship-winning mentality. Sadly, this includes our captain, who is more used to heroics than a kind of consistent, confident weekly grind that wins Championships. However, I think Gerrard showed himself to be trainable; early in the season he would jump into "superhero mode" at every sign of trouble, now he is more consistent, although there is still lot of room for improvement. He allowed his level of play to drop against "lower-risk" opponents on more than one occasion this season and that's unacceptable for a captain, especially when the rest of the team is trying to find that elusive consistency. We paid for those letdowns in performance with some bad losses against bad teams. Championship-winning teams don't make such mistakes.

It's natural for young players, who don't quite know what they are capable of yet, to be inconsistent. So I am giving a pass to Coutinho, Sturridge or Henderson if their level of play fluctuates from game to game. Our squad is young overall, that's why the senior players we do have have to be really, really consistent from game to game. That's why I think Rodgers was so willing to start Downing in every game, despite clearly not being in awe of his attacking abilities - but once Stu found his form, he kept producing a solid 7 in pretty much every game. And that's why the clear lack of consistency from the likes of Johnson, Enrique, Agger, Skrtel and Reina was such a killer - you really could not predict where the next big mistake would come from.

Look at Glen Johnson's pass accuracy from game to game here (click on Avg Pass Accuracy >> Over time). How can one of the club's most senior and expensive players have his passing % jump from 90 to 60 from one game to the next? Look at the shape of his passing accuracy chart: it's all zig-zag up and down. Enrique and Gerrard are not much better in that regard. Compare their stats with Allen, whose graphic is more of a straight line rather that a crazy zig-zag. You can see why Rodgers likes him, even when his form is not the best. Same goes for Lucas. And even Henderson and Coutihno who, despite a couple of visible dips in form, generally stay at the same level from one game to the next.

OK, so what's the conclusion? I think the Championship-winning mentality has to come from the manager and the players will follow (or those who are not willing to adapt will be shipped out). I believe Rodgers has that mentality despite not actually coming close to winning a Championship as manager yet; but his Swansea team was consistent and I believe he picked up some of Mourihno's mentality from working with him. There is nothing a manager like Mourihno hates more than a player whose form is unpredictable from game to game (because it ruins his honed and detailed tactical plan). So I am not surprised that Rodgers is making an emphasis on consistency, rather than talent, "passion" or whatnot as he analyzes his first season in charge and looks for the ways to get better results. I think players who cannot achieve some basic consistency from one game to the next have to be either replaced or challenged by an incoming player - not necessarily more talented, but definitely the more consistent one. Our whole back 5 (4 defenders and Reina) should be targeted for improvement.

I think we as fans must also understand what Rodgers is trying to do; how we gradually transition from a team that plays at 150% in one game and 70% in the next to a team that keeps it consistently around 90%, from a team geared for winning Cups and taking pride in spoiling some big team's afternoon, to a team hopefully challenging for Championship themselves and maybe sometimes prone to having their afternoon spoiled by a determined opponent, but always keeping the big picture in mind. It might all sound trivial, but it's not - it's a different philosophy then what we've become used to in the past years and just like the players, we the fans will need to adjust our thinking too. We will need to learn to appreciate the quiet unspectacular workers in the team, to understand that a player who performs at "7777" is MUCH more valuable to the team than the one who gives "8695", learn not to get too high after wins or too low after unexpected dropped points, always looking at the big picture of a long season. Even when the team hopefully finds its stride for real, some of us might feel a sense of nostalgia for the more emotional and less "calculating" team of old. It's OK, there is absolutely nothing wrong with feeling that. We can always re-watch the highlights of the Istambul game or the West Ham game and share our memories with equally nostalgic-ly inclined brethren. But all teams that win Championships consistently are, at some level, frankly a bit boring. Bayern, Barca, ManU boring. Let's hope we can join this club. In our way. Because the alternative is a "delusion of grandeur" or "sweet memories" club like Newcastle (and soon, Arsenal) and I don't want us to keep going down that road.
 
I have said this for years on this site, I think only Kenny, and Brendan have understood this, for this league it is the most important thing in a player - the winning mentality and doing what really counts which is to win games. If you look at the way both Jose, and Fergie drill their teams it is about winning the game rather than trying to do shit like control the game, and try not to lose. This winning mentality has been missing from our Liverpool teams since the Spice boys era, which was sadly the time that Fergie started drilling his teams in the right way while our lot pissed away the superior talent they had. GH came close but unfortunately he started being more interested in tutoring rather than focussing to win. Rafa - turned too angry with the owners. Kenny knew what was required in the players head but unfortunately times have changed so much with players and what goes in their heads that I don't think he quite realized how much cuddling and pouring sunshine up their arseholes is required before you can make them believe they are winners.
 
That’s the job of the recruitment team and the club to identify those types of players.

I don't know why FSG are so coy about who is in this 'team', but I think we ought to know. The usual pat comment is, 'Well, the managers have been crap at identifying talent, so...' but this fails to appreciate that at least we knew who was crap when that occurred. Now we don't even know who to blame or praise. I would've thought any manager worth his salt would demand the right to identify such players himself. This is like going back to the 1950s. 'Mr Shankly, I think you'll be pleased with our lastest signing...' Frightening.
 
Hes right, for years we have had talented players capable of beating the best in the world one week and losing to the worst in the country the next week, its enough to win cups but no team with that mentality will ever win a league title. This season was a classic example, we scored tons of goals but not very evenly distrbuted, when teams lt us play or we were in the mood we could stick 3 or 4 goals past them but when teams refused to roll over and were highly organised we found it really tough going.

There are a number of players in our squad who are either far too complacent or erratic to be in a title winning team, some like Reina and Johnson would benefit from compeition, others like Enrique or Agger just seem to be frustratingly unpredictable. Either way none of them have ever played at anything close to 100% across a season for us. If we can squeeze the extra 10 or 15% out of these players, whether that a sports pyschologists job or whatever, then I think we would be in a much better position without even adding anything to the squad.
 
I don't know why FSG are so coy about who is in this 'team', but I think we ought to know. The usual pat comment is, 'Well, the managers have been crap at identifying talent, so...' but this fails to appreciate that at least we knew who was crap when that occurred. Now we don't even know who to blame or praise. I would've thought any manager worth his salt would demand the right to identify such players himself. This is like going back to the 1950s. 'Mr Shankly, I think you'll be pleased with our lastest signing...' Frightening.

The average manager lasts 20 months in the Premiership. All you're going to get from a manager if you leave it down to him is short term, expensive 'proven' signings. Wastes of money and flops essentially.

Every team is coy about their use of backroom staff. It's where the potential advantages lie in football these days. Every cunt knows formations and tactics but very few know how to use the data that is being collected. If a team suddenly does figure out what is footballs moneyball equivalent then they'll want to keep it a secret.

We already know he fella that invented the Castrol index is involved behind the scenes with us. I've no idea who else is, but I'm glad we've finally moved away from the old school and begun to modernise the club
 
Oh come on, did Ginsoak wait for other people to identify winners for him? Does Wenger? Does Mourinho? 'Modernising'? What utter bollocks. You'll find it's actually a regression to when directors chose players. The only difference was that was transparent, and this is cloaked in mystery. So don't use modernity as some specious argument.
 
I made some edits and additions (as I usually do) after posting, so if you feel like it, read it again. Or not 🙂
 
Definitely and a great post RB. And you've got to Believe you can win before you actually do!
 
I don't know why FSG are so coy about who is in this 'team', but I think we ought to know. The usual pat comment is, 'Well, the managers have been crap at identifying talent, so...' but this fails to appreciate that at least we knew who was crap when that occurred. Now we don't even know who to blame or praise. I would've thought any manager worth his salt would demand the right to identify such players himself. This is like going back to the 1950s. 'Mr Shankly, I think you'll be pleased with our lastest signing...' Frightening.
But rodgers also said that he has the final word on signings. They may recommend players to him, but it's him and him alone who decides if we buy him. So its not like they just buy and give him a player he knows nothing about.
 
Totally agree with Brendan. Utd won titles with two or three world class players for years. You don't need a team full of superstars. We need a consistent winning mentality and to start to win games 1-0 when not on form. We are either brilliant and stuff teams or average and draw of lose. We need to win some scruffy wins.
 
Rodgers:


We will need to learn to appreciate the quiet unspectacular workers in the team, to understand that a player who performs at "7777" is MUCH more valuable to the team than the one who gives "8695", learn not to get too high after wins or too low after unexpected dropped points, always looking at the big picture of a long season. Even when the team hopefully finds its stride for real, some of us might feel a sense of nostalgia for the more emotional and less "calculating" team of old. It's OK, there is absolutely nothing wrong with feeling that. We can always re-watch the highlights of the Istambul game or the West Ham game and share our memories with equally nostalgic-ly inclined brethren. But all teams that win Championships consistently are, at some level, frankly a bit boring. Bayern, Barca, ManU boring. Let's hope we can join this club. In our way. Because the alternative is a "delusion of grandeur" or "sweet memories" club like Newcastle (and soon, Arsenal) and I don't want us to keep going down that road.

The bit in bold is what I honed in on. The theory is very much one I agree with, but frankly its even more likely if instead of a 7777 form guide we bought players who play at 8888...just saying.

Oh and I know I bang this drum loads, but the successful Liverpool sides of the 70's and early 80's were boring. They didn't showboat, they got the job done. Effectively and consistently. The exception was 87/88 when we had flair, panache, steel, consistency & Johnny Barnes!
 
Oh come on, did Ginsoak wait for other people to identify winners for him? Does Wenger? Does Mourinho? 'Modernising'? What utter bollocks. You'll find it's actually a regression to when directors chose players. The only difference was that was transparent, and this is cloaked in mystery. So don't use modernity as some specious argument.

They all do.
 
I don't know why FSG are so coy about who is in this 'team', but I think we ought to know. The usual pat comment is, 'Well, the managers have been crap at identifying talent, so...' but this fails to appreciate that at least we knew who was crap when that occurred. Now we don't even know who to blame or praise. I would've thought any manager worth his salt would demand the right to identify such players himself. This is like going back to the 1950s. 'Mr Shankly, I think you'll be pleased with our lastest signing...' Frightening.

I don't think that's what he was saying, at the end of the day, it's "his" recruitment team.
 
Did anybody actually looked at my link for Johnson's (and other players) passing stats? Do you think those stats illuminate a real point of concern, such as lack of consistency of certain players, or is it just a load of bollocks?
 
The bit in bold is what I honed in on. The theory is very much one I agree with, but frankly its even more likely if instead of a 7777 form guide we bought players who play at 8888...just saying.

Oh and I know I bang this drum loads, but the successful Liverpool sides of the 70's and early 80's were boring. They didn't showboat, they got the job done. Effectively and consistently. The exception was 87/88 when we had flair, panache, steel, consistency & Johnny Barnes!

8888 is a star player level. Even someone like Gerrard is not capable of playing at 8888 level anymore. Let's hope Coutihno, Sturridge, Allen can reach this level some day.
 
Did anybody actually looked at my link for Johnson's (and other players) passing stats? Do you think those stats illuminate a real point of concern, such as lack of consistency of certain players, or is it just a load of bollocks?

Johnson's been giving the ball away alot for months now, his concentration levels are appalling.
 
Johnson's been giving the ball away alot for months now, his concentration levels are appalling.

Yes, when he has a good game it's almost as frustrating as a bad game, because you just think, why can't this SOB play like this every time, if he is so clearly capable? Hope Rodgers can beat some consistency into him, but he reality is, he needs some real competition for his starting place.
 
8888 is a star player level. Even someone like Gerrard is not capable of playing at 8888 level anymore. Let's hope Coutihno, Sturridge, Allen can reach this level some day.
Does that passing stat include crosses? Because crosses by their nature are inconsistent (particularly when you have small forwards, or when the opposition have commanding centrebacks)
 
But rodgers also said that he has the final word on signings. They may recommend players to him, but it's him and him alone who decides if we buy him. So its not like they just buy and give him a player he knows nothing about.

No, but any manager who's been any good has always made a point of seeking out 'their' key players. Not the nearest to that among a selection box prepared by some mysterious blokes who''ll sack the manager if none of their offerings make a big enough difference. What's he say to them, 'I'm quite busy, so go off and find me someone who's competitive'? It's not 'modern,' it's witless. It's basically concluding that, because most managers don't get the right players, for whatever reason, instead of going for a manager with better judgement, one should invest minimal faith in whatever manager one does get and minimise the risk by relying on a committee to play the percentages. That doesn't deliver titles, it delivers safe mediocrity.
 
No, but any manager who's been any good has always made a point of seeking out 'their' key players. Not the nearest to that among a selection box prepared by some mysterious blokes who''ll sack the manager if none of their offerings make a big enough difference. What's he say to them, 'I'm quite busy, so go off and find me someone who's competitive'? It's not 'modern,' it's witless.

Macca, I think you're looking for something that probably isn't there, he's talking about a normal set up and using different words to explain it. Everyone has scouting systems, every player signed is signed by "the club".

Personally I couldn't care less who's signing them so long as they are of the quality of what we've seen recently, we've had managers handling transfers and singlehandedly fucking them up, so there's no real right or wrong way. He's obviously got a set up that he's comfortable with and it's working at the minute.
 
Does that passing stat include crosses? Because crosses by their nature are inconsistent (particularly when you have small forwards, or when the opposition have commanding centrebacks)

I never understand why some players cross it so often. I mean I can understand if you have some great headers of the ball in the box, but if you don't it's just kicking the ball away. And some players seem to think it's "job done" once they have gotten the ball into the box.
 
No, the most successful managers identify their key targets. They don't just make the final choice.
 
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