Best dives ever

[keniget]

We've already had best tackles and best something else I can't remember. Let's get onto dives.

On MOTD2 Danny Mills complimented Sturridge by saying "it's the most incredible dive ever, he makes it look so real". And if you agree with his assessment, that Sturridge wasn't anticipating contact and intended to go down, you'd have to agree. It was flawlessly executed.

 

[Mystic]

Obligatory Gilardino gif.

 

[Modo]

Sturridge fooled me that's for sure. Didn't suspect anything until I saw Vidic's reaction.

 

[Hansern]

Think Rodgers is spot on imho. Sturridge is anticipating the contact and not diving. But maybe I've got my red tinted glasses on 🙂

Poll said in his weekly referee column that Clattenburg was correct in giving the penalty anyway, as the tackle wasnt close to the ball and it hindered Sturridges progress. Dive or not it was the right call.

 

[Mystic]

Does Poll ever say that the ref got it wrong though?

 

[Hansern]

Does Poll ever say that the ref got it wrong though?

Yeah, he said Clattenburg got some desicions wrong.

Mark Clattenburg got almost all of the big decisions regarding foul play correct and yet did not put in a very good performance, as anyone watching was unable to see what constituted a yellow card and what did not.
The big decisions of an impressive 3-0 win for Liverpool against Manchester United at Old Trafford were:
1. Rafael flew into Steven Gerrard: a high speed studs up challenge which was close to being a red card but yellow was understandably shown.
CLATTENBURG CORRECT

Reckless: Manchester United's Rafael (centre) fouls Steven Gerrard with a dangerous tackle from behind
2. The first penalty could not have been clearer as Rafael deliberately handles the ball.
CORRECT AGAIN

Hands on: A penalty kick was awarded after Rafael (right) handled the ball in the box after a run from Luis Suarez
3. Clattenburg decides not to caution Rafael, probably as it would have meant a red card.
WRONG DECISION

Claim: Referee Mark Clattenburg should have given Rafael second yellow card for handling in the box
4. Liverpool’s second penalty as Phil Jones barged Joe Allen – a clear foul and again Clattenburg decides not to caution.
CORRECT

Correct call: Clattenburg got it spot on awarding a penalty for Phil Jones' (centre) push on Joe Allen in the box
5. Rafael fouls Suarez out on the touchline for surely his last action as he had received his ‘final warning’ when conceding the first penalty. Clattenburg decides to give him another warning and cautions Nemanja Vidic for an earlier foul that he played advantage from.
VIDIC CAUTION CORRECT, WARNING FOR RAFAEL WRONG

Wrong call: Clattenburg should have carded Rafael for an earlier foul on Suarez, not booked Vidic for a later tackle
6. The third Liverpool penalty and the least clear as Vidic slides across the path of Daniel Sturridge but misses the ball. He does not actually trip the striker but still impedes his progress and the penalty is correct.
This time Clattenburg does show the yellow and as it's his second Vidic is also shown the red card – it is extremely harsh on the Serb as it is a careless challenge and the decision is completely inconsistent with the earlier ones.
PENALTY CORRECT, CARD HARSH

Pinch point: Despite minimal contact, Clattenburg was right to send Vidic off for impeding Daniel Sturridge's run

Harsh: But Clattenburg was wrong to give Vidic a second yellow card - it was inconsistent with other decisions
7. Clattenburg misses the fourth penalty for Liverpool as Michael Carrick clearly trips Sturridge.
WRONG DECISION

Wrong decision: Michael Carrick (right) should have had a penalty given against him for a clear trip on Sturridge
8. A superb final decision to allow Liverpool’s third goal as Suarez initially looked to be offside but replays show he was level with the last defender.
CORRECT CALL

Got it right: Clattenburg was right to allow Suarez's goal to stand as he was clearly onside from a Sturridge shot
Clattenburg caused his own problems by deciding to allow Rafael to stay on the field after he had given away the first penalty.
Had he shown red then, as I would have done, the players and everyone watching would have known what to expect.
While his actions did not affect the outcome of the game they detracted from what would have been a very good performance.

 

[Whirly]

I still don't understand why people have this idea that there had to be contact for there to be a foul.

You can illegally obstruct a player without making contact after all.

From what I saw, while there was no contact, it would've been very difficult for Sturridge to continue after the ball after Vidic cut across his path.

 

[Piedro]

It was a dive. I think you'd have to have pretty fucking red blinkers on to believe otherwise to be honest.

If that was given against us, there would be uproar.

 

[Hansern]

I like having fucking red blinkers on tbh 😉

 

[Whirly]

It was a dive. I think you'd have to have pretty fucking red blinkers on to believe otherwise to be honest.

If that was given against us, there would be uproar.

Dives and Fouls aren't two exclusive categories though, which is an important point. Technically, you can dive to avoid contact, but it's still a legitimate foul because the player was illegally obstructed.

Sturridge doesn't need to kick Vidic in the leg in his natural path of motion and get tripped up to draw a foul, it's still a foul because he was illegally obstructed. He just "bailed out" if you will instead of barreling into Vidic's leg and risking injury for the both of them. If Sturridge plants his foot as he would while running, that would be considered a stamp and a straight red, similar to Ramires.

You can't simultaneously want players on the ball to avoid hurting defenders who put in rash challenges and draw contact for fouls. It's absurd, a conflict of interests if you will.

Another interesting point, Sturridge never reacted in a way to insinuate there was any contact.

 

[FoxForceFive]

It was a dive, but even if he had have jumped over him & stayed on his feet then the reckless tackle, which missed the ball completely, would have meant Sturridge missed out on a goalscoring opportunity.

 

[Hansern]

There hasnt been much talk about it in the media?

 

[Halmeister]

It's amazing and I said it at the time, it was a clear dive (on replay) but nothing will be said about it because Sturridge is English and only those pesky foreigners dive. If that was Suarez there would have been murder.

 

[Modo]

It's amazing and I said it at the time, it was a clear dive (on replay) but nothing will be said about it because Sturridge is English and only those pesky foreigners dive. If that was Suarez there would have been murder.

true

 

[Halmeister]

Oh and I don't give a shit if he dived. I'm not having a go at him.

 

[Spaghetti Legs]

Haven't seen it mentioned but it was exactly the same as he done against Fulham for that late pen, i thought that was a dive but that he had every right to go down when a defender offers a penalty on a plate to him like that, just like yesterday, Vidic was handing it to him on a plate, sorry but you have to accept those gifts, i would have been annoyed if he didn't go down, also it was extremely shit at the time when Suarez didn't go down early on, fuck knows why he didn't.

Can you imagine of Sturridge had stayed on his feet against Fulham, we would have been pissed right off at him for that, no?

 

[Hansern]

There was contact from Riether against Fulham though. Yesterday there wasnt although Vidic tackle was a pen.

 

[Spaghetti Legs]

They were very similar, Sturridge could easily have stayed on his feet against Fulham if he wanted to, thankfully hes not stupid and doesn't turn down a gift.

 

[Modo]

They were very similar, Sturridge could easily have stayed on his feet against Fulham if he wanted to, thankfully hes not stupid and doesn't turn down a gift.

Are you calling Suarez stupid?
*shakes fist*

 

[Spaghetti Legs]

Are you calling Suarez stupid?
*shakes fist*

Ha, he should have went down though, fuck knows why he didn't, it was out of character not just for him but near on every player him to get clipped in the box and not go down.

 

[Spaghetti Legs]

On the topic, Owens 2 pens against Argentina we very nicely done, such big games to do them in, sort of admire Owen for doing those, English players are way to honest compared to the majority of other countries in these tournements, not Owen though, very clever.

 

[etchy]

It's amazing and I said it at the time, it was a clear dive (on replay) but nothing will be said about it because Sturridge is English and only those pesky foreigners dive. If that was Suarez there would have been murder.

Yep agree it was a dive. Sturridge's sheepish body language was telling, though in real time it thought it was a definite tackle. It does not fit the narrative that needs to be spun, esp when Sturridge is likely to be leading striker in the WC. Also it is sad that Suarez is not being given recognition that he is diving less. This and I think a previous game he kept going despite having an opportunity to dive. Well, Sturridge becoming more devilish and Suarez angelic. Looks like they do influence each other, actions kinda balances each other out doesn't it?

I also think Sturridge may have gotten away with it as it was not a 'crucial' goal scoring opportunity. Liverpool were totally in control by then and Gerrard miss righted the wrong in a way. Still wished Gerrard would have scored that hat trick of penalties!

 

[Halmeister]

You could tell Neville was reluctant to label it a dive straight away, even though you could tell he thought it was one. It was so he didn't cause any unrest or hostility when they meet up for England. It's the same reason why the papers aren't having a go either. They don't want anything to derail or disrupt English preparations for the World Cup.