• You may have to login or register before you can post and view our exclusive members only forums.
    To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Attack vs Defence.

Forums Unread posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
I

inijjer

6CM Follower
Member
There have been a few comments recently on this forum scattered about in various posts that are quite bizarre frankly.

We need more attacking players ?
We need better back up strikers?
We don't need Mascher so replace him with a cheaper model and go for a forward thinking player?
Its a big game for Kuyt and Yossi tonight they need to step up?
Our forward play was terrible (following the 2-2 draw with birmingham)?

Is everyone else watching a different team from me ? Our problem is not going forwards. Its keeping goals out from the back. We should not require 3 goals against Birmingham to win. We should be able to hang on to a 1-0 lead and hit teams on the break. We've thrown away leading positions this season.

I'm not saying replace the entire defence or even that the fault rests merely with the defence but its obvious that we're not as comfortable without the ball this season. And Alonso, if he is being missed. is more missed for his positional and defensive play then for his 40 yd passes. I say if wing backs push up then our central midfield have to hang back, maybe one player, maybe both. The balance is all out of whack, this is not about control without penetration, its purely about accepting that the other team is not just there to have things done to them. Teams are not just there to lay back and think of Liverpool.
 
Good post Iniijjijer.

It's obvious that we are in desperate need for some sort of balance and routine at the back. Not much Rafa could've done about it really as we're constantly without key-members in the back-line though.

Our arguably best line-up in the back in Johnson, Carra, Agger, Insua/Aurelio hasn't been fielded once this season as well I'm aware of, and it has serioulsy damaged our self-confidence in the back with all these chops and changes.

Skrtrl has looked completely out of place at times, but I'm sure it's not like he's certainly become a bad defender? He's drained for self-confidence and much the same can be said about the rest. Agger looked shakier than I remember him against Birmingham and we all know Carra hasn't exactly hit form either.

Insua is young and you can hardly blame him for the many goals we've conceded on e.g. setpieces. He could use a great boost of morale as well.

Hopefully the Int. break will do our team a world of good. Olsen, the Danish team-manager has reiterated that Agger was fit to play in the upcoming friendlies but agreed with the Melwood medical staff to rest him so he could come back to 100 pct. fitness. Same goes for Johnson, Aquilani, Aurelio and Skrtl I'm sure. Maybe even Kelly, who impressed me a lot, too could regain his form and fitness during the break.

*It's obvious that we are desperate to get Gerrard and Torres back too but they're not the first to blame for the ammount of goals conceded I reckon.
 
I don't think you can blame any one part of the team; we have problems (some bigger than others) in all areas of the pitch.
 
you could argue the biggest cause for concern is the defense purely because we have scored first in the past few games but failed to keep a clean sheet. a consistant back line needs to be picked but that's difficult because of form and injuries.
 
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=37137.msg986796#msg986796 date=1258021053]
I don't think you can blame any one part of the team; we have problems (some bigger than others) in all areas of the pitch.
[/quote]
I agree whole-heartedly.

I'm not of the opinion that it's the main area to strengthen at all, it's rather obvious though that we've gone from more or less rock solid to shaky stevens in the past few months.

I do however, in this area, lay most of the blame on factors such as the injury-situation, key-players blatant dip in form (Carra) as well as a good ol' bad run of luck.

E.g. Beachball.
 
Simple case of our best two players being injured for chunks of the season and then Johnson, Aurelio and Riera being injured doesn't help considering the strength of the squad.
 
injuries.
defense not used to fullbacks being so attacking.
zonal marking gone to shit.
profligate finishing.
 
[quote author=dossena link=topic=37137.msg986754#msg986754 date=1258017645]
I don't think Skrtel should play a game for us no more. He's just not good enough.
[/quote]

He's in bad form, really bad form. But the player we knew before this season hasn't just disappeared. I think he's having a crisis of confidence and I'd actually blame a bit of that on Carragher, the headbutt was the most notable incident of Carragher not trusting Skrtle to deal with something, but it wasn't thy only example.
 
decent points fella

What is interesting is the best clean sheet we have had against the mancs had our fullbacks hardly crossing the half way line.

Maybe that is most of the problem.

with Johnson beings so attacking maybe the left full back should be more reserved and solid, so not Insua then.

We have not replaced JAR with anything better have we.

I do think you are wrong on not neededing more attacking option though.

Out of out 17 games this season we have scored 1 or 0 goals in 11 of them, so hardly banging them in are we
 
[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=37137.msg986855#msg986855 date=1258026913]
[quote author=dossena link=topic=37137.msg986754#msg986754 date=1258017645]
I don't think Skrtel should play a game for us no more. He's just not good enough.
[/quote]

He's in bad form, really bad form. But the player we knew before this season hasn't just disappeared. I think he's having a crisis of confidence and I'd actually blame a bit of that on Carragher, the headbutt was the most notable incident of Carragher not trusting Skrtle to deal with something, but it wasn't thy only example.
[/quote]

skrtel's position is poor and has been pretty much from day one, not worth blaming it on poor form.
 
I'd like to hazard an opinion and say that Lucas isn't as intelligent and anticipative as Alonso was in defense.. been seeing opposing strikers getting runs at our center-backs more than I'm used to seeing, how come they have so much space to run from the midfield area to attack Carra/Agger/Skrtel/Greek?

As for our set pieces defense, we've been missing Gerrard who's replaced by Benny, Alonso replaced by Lucas, Aurelio replaced by Insua, Riera replaced by Benny/Voronin.. a bit of a height reduction I think. Other than that, I really can't identify what's gone wrong. 🙁
 
[quote author=Garmy link=topic=37137.msg987179#msg987179 date=1258042487]
I'd like to hazard an opinion and say that Lucas isn't as intelligent and anticipative as Alonso was in defense.. been seeing opposing strikers getting runs at our center-backs more than I'm used to seeing, how come they have so much space to run from the midfield area to attack Carra/Agger/Skrtel/Greek?

As for our set pieces defense, we've been missing Gerrard who's replaced by Benny, Alonso replaced by Lucas, Aurelio replaced by Insua, Riera replaced by Benny/Voronin.. a bit of a height reduction I think. Other than that, I really can't identify what's gone wrong. 🙁
[/quote]

whether you hate lucas or not he can't be blamed for all the defensive woes. if the defenders are truly so dependant on the CM then they can't be called good defenders in the own right.
 
[quote author=inijjer link=topic=37137.msg986753#msg986753 date=1258017363]
There have been a few comments recently on this forum scattered about in various posts that are quite bizarre frankly.

We need more attacking players ?
We need better back up strikers?
We don't need Mascher so replace him with a cheaper model and go for a forward thinking player?
Its a big game for Kuyt and Yossi tonight they need to step up?
Our forward play was terrible (following the 2-2 draw with birmingham)?

Is everyone else watching a different team from me ? Our problem is not going forwards. Its keeping goals out from the back. We should not require 3 goals against Birmingham to win. We should be able to hang on to a 1-0 lead and hit teams on the break. We've thrown away leading positions this season.

I'm not saying replace the entire defence or even that the fault rests merely with the defence but its obvious that we're not as comfortable without the ball this season. And Alonso, if he is being missed. is more missed for his positional and defensive play then for his 40 yd passes. I say if wing backs push up then our central midfield have to hang back, maybe one player, maybe both. The balance is all out of whack, this is not about control without penetration, its purely about accepting that the other team is not just there to have things done to them. Teams are not just there to lay back and think of Liverpool.
[/quote]

Out defence is a problem because Rafael was the one who bought Johnson and Skrtel. Poor defensively is down to the weakening of the defense that was over the summer when we sold a rightback that could defend and replaced him with a rightback that can't. Thus throwing off all the balance. We lost the better defender and lost our defense stability. And it cost us 14million net. Wonderful.

If Johnson had cost 7million he'd have been a decent buy. At 17million, He was a waste of money and nothing more.. His piss poor defending costs us goals, like the first goal against Birmingham. Johnson's horrendous defending caused that goal. He was meant to be marking a zone but he decided to leave his zone when Ridgewell made a dummy run away from him, thus leaving himself out position, so that when the ball was played into he zone, he was left backpeddling to get back into position. Then he got outjumped for a ball that should have been landing right on his forehead had he done his job correctly. Then, as if that wasn't bad enough, he played Benitez onside! Then he had the cheek to complain that it was offside!! Goal for Birmingham, Johnson at fault.

This is something that has happened a number of times this season. He has no positional sense, he can't read the game and he can't understand zonal marking. He's also very poor under crosses if he's being pressurized. He's not producing enough at the attacking end of the pitch to make up for the gaping hole he's created in our defense. A poor buy.

Rafael has made a mess out of the team this season. You kids know it and blindly supporting him.
 
There you have it folks: "Johnson is a waste of money and nothing more..."
 
[quote author=Glock link=topic=37137.msg987632#msg987632 date=1258078105]
[quote author=inijjer link=topic=37137.msg986753#msg986753 date=1258017363]
There have been a few comments recently on this forum scattered about in various posts that are quite bizarre frankly.

We need more attacking players ?
We need better back up strikers?
We don't need Mascher so replace him with a cheaper model and go for a forward thinking player?
Its a big game for Kuyt and Yossi tonight they need to step up?
Our forward play was terrible (following the 2-2 draw with birmingham)?

Is everyone else watching a different team from me ? Our problem is not going forwards. Its keeping goals out from the back. We should not require 3 goals against Birmingham to win. We should be able to hang on to a 1-0 lead and hit teams on the break. We've thrown away leading positions this season.

I'm not saying replace the entire defence or even that the fault rests merely with the defence but its obvious that we're not as comfortable without the ball this season. And Alonso, if he is being missed. is more missed for his positional and defensive play then for his 40 yd passes. I say if wing backs push up then our central midfield have to hang back, maybe one player, maybe both. The balance is all out of whack, this is not about control without penetration, its purely about accepting that the other team is not just there to have things done to them. Teams are not just there to lay back and think of Liverpool.
[/quote]

Out defence is a problem because Rafael was the one who bought Johnson and Skrtel. Poor defensively is down to the weakening of the defense that was over the summer when we sold a rightback that could defend and replaced him with a rightback that can't. Thus throwing off all the balance. We lost the better defender and lost our defense stability. And it cost us 14million net. Wonderful.

If Johnson had cost 7million he'd have been a decent buy. At 17million, He was a waste of money and nothing more.. His piss poor defending costs us goals, like the first goal against Birmingham. Johnson's horrendous defending caused that goal. He was meant to be marking a zone but he decided to leave his zone when Ridgewell made a dummy run away from him, thus leaving himself out position, so that when the ball was played into he zone, he was left backpeddling to get back into position. Then he got outjumped for a ball that should have been landing right on his forehead had he done his job correctly. Then, as if that wasn't bad enough, he played Benitez onside! Then he had the cheek to complain that it was offside!! Goal for Birmingham, Johnson at fault.

This is something that has happened a number of times this season. He has no positional sense, he can't read the game and he can't understand zonal marking. He's also very poor under crosses if he's being pressurized. He's not producing enough at the attacking end of the pitch to make up for the gaping hole he's created in our defense. A poor buy.

Rafael has made a mess out of the team this season. You kids know it and blindly supporting him.
[/quote]

Rafael has made mistakes in the past but hes usually quick to fix them. Players who are not up to it usually get shipped out pretty qucik...Why not give him a chance to fix it this time instead of sacking him?
 
[quote author=Mistadobalina link=topic=37137.msg987634#msg987634 date=1258078400]
[quote author=Glock link=topic=37137.msg987632#msg987632 date=1258078105]
[quote author=inijjer link=topic=37137.msg986753#msg986753 date=1258017363]
There have been a few comments recently on this forum scattered about in various posts that are quite bizarre frankly.

We need more attacking players ?
We need better back up strikers?
We don't need Mascher so replace him with a cheaper model and go for a forward thinking player?
Its a big game for Kuyt and Yossi tonight they need to step up?
Our forward play was terrible (following the 2-2 draw with birmingham)?

Is everyone else watching a different team from me ? Our problem is not going forwards. Its keeping goals out from the back. We should not require 3 goals against Birmingham to win. We should be able to hang on to a 1-0 lead and hit teams on the break. We've thrown away leading positions this season.

I'm not saying replace the entire defence or even that the fault rests merely with the defence but its obvious that we're not as comfortable without the ball this season. And Alonso, if he is being missed. is more missed for his positional and defensive play then for his 40 yd passes. I say if wing backs push up then our central midfield have to hang back, maybe one player, maybe both. The balance is all out of whack, this is not about control without penetration, its purely about accepting that the other team is not just there to have things done to them. Teams are not just there to lay back and think of Liverpool.
[/quote]

Out defence is a problem because Rafael was the one who bought Johnson and Skrtel. Poor defensively is down to the weakening of the defense that was over the summer when we sold a rightback that could defend and replaced him with a rightback that can't. Thus throwing off all the balance. We lost the better defender and lost our defense stability. And it cost us 14million net. Wonderful.

If Johnson had cost 7million he'd have been a decent buy. At 17million, He was a waste of money and nothing more.. His piss poor defending costs us goals, like the first goal against Birmingham. Johnson's horrendous defending caused that goal. He was meant to be marking a zone but he decided to leave his zone when Ridgewell made a dummy run away from him, thus leaving himself out position, so that when the ball was played into he zone, he was left backpeddling to get back into position. Then he got outjumped for a ball that should have been landing right on his forehead had he done his job correctly. Then, as if that wasn't bad enough, he played Benitez onside! Then he had the cheek to complain that it was offside!! Goal for Birmingham, Johnson at fault.

This is something that has happened a number of times this season. He has no positional sense, he can't read the game and he can't understand zonal marking. He's also very poor under crosses if he's being pressurized. He's not producing enough at the attacking end of the pitch to make up for the gaping hole he's created in our defense. A poor buy.

Rafael has made a mess out of the team this season. You kids know it and blindly supporting him.
[/quote]

Rafael has made mistakes in the past but hes usually quick to fix them. Players who are not up to it usually get shipped out pretty qucik...Why not give him a chance to fix it this time instead of sacking him?
[/quote]

Fix? Fix what? If Rafael is still in charge at Christmas he shouldn't be given a penny to spend. He's wasted enough money.
 
[quote author=Glock link=topic=37137.msg987643#msg987643 date=1258079465]
[quote author=Mistadobalina link=topic=37137.msg987634#msg987634 date=1258078400]
[quote author=Glock link=topic=37137.msg987632#msg987632 date=1258078105]
[quote author=inijjer link=topic=37137.msg986753#msg986753 date=1258017363]
There have been a few comments recently on this forum scattered about in various posts that are quite bizarre frankly.

We need more attacking players ?
We need better back up strikers?
We don't need Mascher so replace him with a cheaper model and go for a forward thinking player?
Its a big game for Kuyt and Yossi tonight they need to step up?
Our forward play was terrible (following the 2-2 draw with birmingham)?

Is everyone else watching a different team from me ? Our problem is not going forwards. Its keeping goals out from the back. We should not require 3 goals against Birmingham to win. We should be able to hang on to a 1-0 lead and hit teams on the break. We've thrown away leading positions this season.

I'm not saying replace the entire defence or even that the fault rests merely with the defence but its obvious that we're not as comfortable without the ball this season. And Alonso, if he is being missed. is more missed for his positional and defensive play then for his 40 yd passes. I say if wing backs push up then our central midfield have to hang back, maybe one player, maybe both. The balance is all out of whack, this is not about control without penetration, its purely about accepting that the other team is not just there to have things done to them. Teams are not just there to lay back and think of Liverpool.
[/quote]

Out defence is a problem because Rafael was the one who bought Johnson and Skrtel. Poor defensively is down to the weakening of the defense that was over the summer when we sold a rightback that could defend and replaced him with a rightback that can't. Thus throwing off all the balance. We lost the better defender and lost our defense stability. And it cost us 14million net. Wonderful.

If Johnson had cost 7million he'd have been a decent buy. At 17million, He was a waste of money and nothing more.. His piss poor defending costs us goals, like the first goal against Birmingham. Johnson's horrendous defending caused that goal. He was meant to be marking a zone but he decided to leave his zone when Ridgewell made a dummy run away from him, thus leaving himself out position, so that when the ball was played into he zone, he was left backpeddling to get back into position. Then he got outjumped for a ball that should have been landing right on his forehead had he done his job correctly. Then, as if that wasn't bad enough, he played Benitez onside! Then he had the cheek to complain that it was offside!! Goal for Birmingham, Johnson at fault.

This is something that has happened a number of times this season. He has no positional sense, he can't read the game and he can't understand zonal marking. He's also very poor under crosses if he's being pressurized. He's not producing enough at the attacking end of the pitch to make up for the gaping hole he's created in our defense. A poor buy.

Rafael has made a mess out of the team this season. You kids know it and blindly supporting him.
[/quote]

Rafael has made mistakes in the past but hes usually quick to fix them. Players who are not up to it usually get shipped out pretty qucik...Why not give him a chance to fix it this time instead of sacking him?
[/quote]

Fix? Fix what? If Rafael is still in charge at Christmas he shouldn't be given a penny to spend. He's wasted enough money.
[/quote]

On what, Christmas presents? That's a bit harsh glock.
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37137.msg987645#msg987645 date=1258079662]
[quote author=Glock link=topic=37137.msg987643#msg987643 date=1258079465]
[quote author=Mistadobalina link=topic=37137.msg987634#msg987634 date=1258078400]
[quote author=Glock link=topic=37137.msg987632#msg987632 date=1258078105]
[quote author=inijjer link=topic=37137.msg986753#msg986753 date=1258017363]
There have been a few comments recently on this forum scattered about in various posts that are quite bizarre frankly.

We need more attacking players ?
We need better back up strikers?
We don't need Mascher so replace him with a cheaper model and go for a forward thinking player?
Its a big game for Kuyt and Yossi tonight they need to step up?
Our forward play was terrible (following the 2-2 draw with birmingham)?

Is everyone else watching a different team from me ? Our problem is not going forwards. Its keeping goals out from the back. We should not require 3 goals against Birmingham to win. We should be able to hang on to a 1-0 lead and hit teams on the break. We've thrown away leading positions this season.

I'm not saying replace the entire defence or even that the fault rests merely with the defence but its obvious that we're not as comfortable without the ball this season. And Alonso, if he is being missed. is more missed for his positional and defensive play then for his 40 yd passes. I say if wing backs push up then our central midfield have to hang back, maybe one player, maybe both. The balance is all out of whack, this is not about control without penetration, its purely about accepting that the other team is not just there to have things done to them. Teams are not just there to lay back and think of Liverpool.
[/quote]

Out defence is a problem because Rafael was the one who bought Johnson and Skrtel. Poor defensively is down to the weakening of the defense that was over the summer when we sold a rightback that could defend and replaced him with a rightback that can't. Thus throwing off all the balance. We lost the better defender and lost our defense stability. And it cost us 14million net. Wonderful.

If Johnson had cost 7million he'd have been a decent buy. At 17million, He was a waste of money and nothing more.. His piss poor defending costs us goals, like the first goal against Birmingham. Johnson's horrendous defending caused that goal. He was meant to be marking a zone but he decided to leave his zone when Ridgewell made a dummy run away from him, thus leaving himself out position, so that when the ball was played into he zone, he was left backpeddling to get back into position. Then he got outjumped for a ball that should have been landing right on his forehead had he done his job correctly. Then, as if that wasn't bad enough, he played Benitez onside! Then he had the cheek to complain that it was offside!! Goal for Birmingham, Johnson at fault.

This is something that has happened a number of times this season. He has no positional sense, he can't read the game and he can't understand zonal marking. He's also very poor under crosses if he's being pressurized. He's not producing enough at the attacking end of the pitch to make up for the gaping hole he's created in our defense. A poor buy.

Rafael has made a mess out of the team this season. You kids know it and blindly supporting him.
[/quote]

Rafael has made mistakes in the past but hes usually quick to fix them. Players who are not up to it usually get shipped out pretty qucik...Why not give him a chance to fix it this time instead of sacking him?
[/quote]

Fix? Fix what? If Rafael is still in charge at Christmas he shouldn't be given a penny to spend. He's wasted enough money.
[/quote]

On what, Christmas presents? That's a bit harsh glock.
[/quote]

Shut up Piggy.
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37137.msg987645#msg987645 date=1258079662]
[quote author=Glock link=topic=37137.msg987643#msg987643 date=1258079465]
[quote author=Mistadobalina link=topic=37137.msg987634#msg987634 date=1258078400]
[quote author=Glock link=topic=37137.msg987632#msg987632 date=1258078105]
[quote author=inijjer link=topic=37137.msg986753#msg986753 date=1258017363]
There have been a few comments recently on this forum scattered about in various posts that are quite bizarre frankly.

We need more attacking players ?
We need better back up strikers?
We don't need Mascher so replace him with a cheaper model and go for a forward thinking player?
Its a big game for Kuyt and Yossi tonight they need to step up?
Our forward play was terrible (following the 2-2 draw with birmingham)?

Is everyone else watching a different team from me ? Our problem is not going forwards. Its keeping goals out from the back. We should not require 3 goals against Birmingham to win. We should be able to hang on to a 1-0 lead and hit teams on the break. We've thrown away leading positions this season.

I'm not saying replace the entire defence or even that the fault rests merely with the defence but its obvious that we're not as comfortable without the ball this season. And Alonso, if he is being missed. is more missed for his positional and defensive play then for his 40 yd passes. I say if wing backs push up then our central midfield have to hang back, maybe one player, maybe both. The balance is all out of whack, this is not about control without penetration, its purely about accepting that the other team is not just there to have things done to them. Teams are not just there to lay back and think of Liverpool.
[/quote]

Out defence is a problem because Rafael was the one who bought Johnson and Skrtel. Poor defensively is down to the weakening of the defense that was over the summer when we sold a rightback that could defend and replaced him with a rightback that can't. Thus throwing off all the balance. We lost the better defender and lost our defense stability. And it cost us 14million net. Wonderful.

If Johnson had cost 7million he'd have been a decent buy. At 17million, He was a waste of money and nothing more.. His piss poor defending costs us goals, like the first goal against Birmingham. Johnson's horrendous defending caused that goal. He was meant to be marking a zone but he decided to leave his zone when Ridgewell made a dummy run away from him, thus leaving himself out position, so that when the ball was played into he zone, he was left backpeddling to get back into position. Then he got outjumped for a ball that should have been landing right on his forehead had he done his job correctly. Then, as if that wasn't bad enough, he played Benitez onside! Then he had the cheek to complain that it was offside!! Goal for Birmingham, Johnson at fault.

This is something that has happened a number of times this season. He has no positional sense, he can't read the game and he can't understand zonal marking. He's also very poor under crosses if he's being pressurized. He's not producing enough at the attacking end of the pitch to make up for the gaping hole he's created in our defense. A poor buy.

Rafael has made a mess out of the team this season. You kids know it and blindly supporting him.
[/quote]

Rafael has made mistakes in the past but hes usually quick to fix them. Players who are not up to it usually get shipped out pretty qucik...Why not give him a chance to fix it this time instead of sacking him?
[/quote]

Fix? Fix what? If Rafael is still in charge at Christmas he shouldn't be given a penny to spend. He's wasted enough money.
[/quote]

On what, Christmas presents? That's a bit harsh glock.
[/quote]

ha yes Montse needs a new watch.

Glock i mean fix the mistakes hes made in the transfer market by selling players and bringing in new ones. He will be here come the christmas time and giving him no money is not going to help.

Hes got a lot of signings right too you know, he has got it right as much as he got it wrong that is the truth but its a gamble who ever you sign.

Nobody was saying Lucas was a terrible signing after hed just won Brasilian player of the year, even Tildo himself Tim Vickery got that one wrong!
 
[quote author=Mistadobalina link=topic=37137.msg987648#msg987648 date=1258080116]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37137.msg987645#msg987645 date=1258079662]
[quote author=Glock link=topic=37137.msg987643#msg987643 date=1258079465]
[quote author=Mistadobalina link=topic=37137.msg987634#msg987634 date=1258078400]
[quote author=Glock link=topic=37137.msg987632#msg987632 date=1258078105]
[quote author=inijjer link=topic=37137.msg986753#msg986753 date=1258017363]
There have been a few comments recently on this forum scattered about in various posts that are quite bizarre frankly.

We need more attacking players ?
We need better back up strikers?
We don't need Mascher so replace him with a cheaper model and go for a forward thinking player?
Its a big game for Kuyt and Yossi tonight they need to step up?
Our forward play was terrible (following the 2-2 draw with birmingham)?

Is everyone else watching a different team from me ? Our problem is not going forwards. Its keeping goals out from the back. We should not require 3 goals against Birmingham to win. We should be able to hang on to a 1-0 lead and hit teams on the break. We've thrown away leading positions this season.

I'm not saying replace the entire defence or even that the fault rests merely with the defence but its obvious that we're not as comfortable without the ball this season. And Alonso, if he is being missed. is more missed for his positional and defensive play then for his 40 yd passes. I say if wing backs push up then our central midfield have to hang back, maybe one player, maybe both. The balance is all out of whack, this is not about control without penetration, its purely about accepting that the other team is not just there to have things done to them. Teams are not just there to lay back and think of Liverpool.
[/quote]

Out defence is a problem because Rafael was the one who bought Johnson and Skrtel. Poor defensively is down to the weakening of the defense that was over the summer when we sold a rightback that could defend and replaced him with a rightback that can't. Thus throwing off all the balance. We lost the better defender and lost our defense stability. And it cost us 14million net. Wonderful.

If Johnson had cost 7million he'd have been a decent buy. At 17million, He was a waste of money and nothing more.. His piss poor defending costs us goals, like the first goal against Birmingham. Johnson's horrendous defending caused that goal. He was meant to be marking a zone but he decided to leave his zone when Ridgewell made a dummy run away from him, thus leaving himself out position, so that when the ball was played into he zone, he was left backpeddling to get back into position. Then he got outjumped for a ball that should have been landing right on his forehead had he done his job correctly. Then, as if that wasn't bad enough, he played Benitez onside! Then he had the cheek to complain that it was offside!! Goal for Birmingham, Johnson at fault.

This is something that has happened a number of times this season. He has no positional sense, he can't read the game and he can't understand zonal marking. He's also very poor under crosses if he's being pressurized. He's not producing enough at the attacking end of the pitch to make up for the gaping hole he's created in our defense. A poor buy.

Rafael has made a mess out of the team this season. You kids know it and blindly supporting him.
[/quote]

Rafael has made mistakes in the past but hes usually quick to fix them. Players who are not up to it usually get shipped out pretty qucik...Why not give him a chance to fix it this time instead of sacking him?
[/quote]

Fix? Fix what? If Rafael is still in charge at Christmas he shouldn't be given a penny to spend. He's wasted enough money.
[/quote]

On what, Christmas presents? That's a bit harsh glock.
[/quote]

ha yes Montse needs a new watch.

Glock i mean fix the mistakes hes made in the transfer market by selling players and bringing in new ones. He will be here come the christmas time and giving him no money is not going to help.

Hes got a lot of signings right too you know, he has got it right as much as he got it wrong that is the truth but its a gamble who ever you sign.

Nobody was saying Lucas was a terrible signing after hed just won Brasilian player of the year, even Tildo himself Tim Vickery got that one wrong!
[/quote]

Fix by buying new players like Johnson, Aquilani and wasted 37 fucking million you mean?? ??

We have enough of this shit and Rafael's on the verge of getting sacked.
 
[quote author=Glock link=topic=37137.msg987655#msg987655 date=1258083717]
We have enough of this shit and Rafael's on the verge of getting sacked.
[/quote]

Glock, you either support the manager you have when he needs it, or you sack him, you don't do neither. Well maybe you would, but it isn't very bright.
 
Glock you are an idiot. Johnson is a fucking animal and is worth every penny of that 17mil. you must be blind because obviously you cant see how good johnson is
 
I think that we have let ourselves down as a collective unit. Last season we attacked and defended in numbers. Every player knew his job and went about it with aplomb. Set-pieces are killing our self confidence and belief. See the change in the teams character and mentality once we win a few games on the trot!
 
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=37137.msg987659#msg987659 date=1258085122]
[quote author=Glock link=topic=37137.msg987655#msg987655 date=1258083717]
We have enough of this shit and Rafael's on the verge of getting sacked.
[/quote]

Glock, you either support the manager you have when he needs it, or you sack him, you don't do neither. Well maybe you would, but it isn't very bright.
[/quote]

I have supported him for the past 5 years and i don't need you to tell me what should i do now. He's walking on thin ice now and the injuries too could be because of his fitness coaches and they have a lot to answer for. As, IMO, have the medical team(sports therapists and physios) who don't seem to be getting anything right.

One of my major issues with Rafael is the constant changing of the backroom staff. Of the initial staff he brought with him, none of them are still at the club that i can think of. It's really hard to create continuity when there's such constant upheavel. I mean just look at this past summer! A ridiculous turn-over of staff.
 
These threads are such a joy to read after I discovered the ignore button under Glock's name.

"This user is currently on ignore."

Ahhhhhh...
 
[quote author=Glock link=topic=37137.msg987632#msg987632 date=1258078105]
[quote author=inijjer link=topic=37137.msg986753#msg986753 date=1258017363]
There have been a few comments recently on this forum scattered about in various posts that are quite bizarre frankly.

We need more attacking players ?
We need better back up strikers?
We don't need Mascher so replace him with a cheaper model and go for a forward thinking player?
Its a big game for Kuyt and Yossi tonight they need to step up?
Our forward play was terrible (following the 2-2 draw with birmingham)?

Is everyone else watching a different team from me ? Our problem is not going forwards. Its keeping goals out from the back. We should not require 3 goals against Birmingham to win. We should be able to hang on to a 1-0 lead and hit teams on the break. We've thrown away leading positions this season.

I'm not saying replace the entire defence or even that the fault rests merely with the defence but its obvious that we're not as comfortable without the ball this season. And Alonso, if he is being missed. is more missed for his positional and defensive play then for his 40 yd passes. I say if wing backs push up then our central midfield have to hang back, maybe one player, maybe both. The balance is all out of whack, this is not about control without penetration, its purely about accepting that the other team is not just there to have things done to them. Teams are not just there to lay back and think of Liverpool.
[/quote]

Out defence is a problem because Rafael was the one who bought Johnson and Skrtel. Poor defensively is down to the weakening of the defense that was over the summer when we sold a rightback that could defend and replaced him with a rightback that can't. Thus throwing off all the balance. We lost the better defender and lost our defense stability. And it cost us 14million net. Wonderful.

If Johnson had cost 7million he'd have been a decent buy. At 17million, He was a waste of money and nothing more.. His piss poor defending costs us goals, like the first goal against Birmingham. Johnson's horrendous defending caused that goal. He was meant to be marking a zone but he decided to leave his zone when Ridgewell made a dummy run away from him, thus leaving himself out position, so that when the ball was played into he zone, he was left backpeddling to get back into position. Then he got outjumped for a ball that should have been landing right on his forehead had he done his job correctly. Then, as if that wasn't bad enough, he played Benitez onside! Then he had the cheek to complain that it was offside!! Goal for Birmingham, Johnson at fault.

This is something that has happened a number of times this season. He has no positional sense, he can't read the game and he can't understand zonal marking. He's also very poor under crosses if he's being pressurized. He's not producing enough at the attacking end of the pitch to make up for the gaping hole he's created in our defense. A poor buy.

Rafael has made a mess out of the team this season. You kids know it and blindly supporting him.
[/quote]

Heureka.
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=37137.msg987190#msg987190 date=1258043398]
[quote author=Garmy link=topic=37137.msg987179#msg987179 date=1258042487]
I'd like to hazard an opinion and say that Lucas isn't as intelligent and anticipative as Alonso was in defense.. been seeing opposing strikers getting runs at our center-backs more than I'm used to seeing, how come they have so much space to run from the midfield area to attack Carra/Agger/Skrtel/Greek?

As for our set pieces defense, we've been missing Gerrard who's replaced by Benny, Alonso replaced by Lucas, Aurelio replaced by Insua, Riera replaced by Benny/Voronin.. a bit of a height reduction I think. Other than that, I really can't identify what's gone wrong. 🙁
[/quote]

whether you hate lucas or not he can't be blamed for all the defensive woes. if the defenders are truly so dependant on the CM then they can't be called good defenders in the own right.
[/quote]
I don't hate him and yes, I don't blame him for all the defensive woes we're having currently, as a large number of goals we've conceded have been from set pieces/counter-attacks/plain good goals.

Having said that, going back onto topic with our defenders being run at, how often do you see teams having their center-backs being run at nowadays? When we attack, our players are hardly given that chance (or they don't have the ability to.. sigh). Cris from Lyon did an exceptional job the few times Torres tried to run at him, and yes I must say our CB's seem to have sluggish feet. But overall, everyone has midfielders helping out defense nowadays.

There's been a stark contrast from our miserly defense last year. What has changed? Johnson for Arbeloa, Lucas for Alonso. I've seen Johnson put in a fair bit of good tackles, although he does let in crosses, however I don't think he's been much of a downgrade in defense from Alvaro.
 
Thats an excellent point Garmy, we have given teams far too much respect in the middle of the park and our defence have been left exposed on far too many occasions. Mascherano has not been up to his usual standards and was caught out for Jerome's goal the other night. Its slight mistakes like that which can get punished.

As for blaming Johnson, he has been the one bright light of our season so far. To blame him for our defensive woes is just ignorant. That said, now Torres is out, I'd be inclined to put Johnson as right mid and push Dirk up front.
 
I don't blame Johnson, but I don't think he's anything like as defensively sound as Arby.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom