Apparently there's nothing wrong with Stevie

[Wizardry]

To be honest I forgot he was playing in the second half for a while, all our good play seemed to be coming down the flank from Johnson and Sterling.

Is this deliberately ironic?

You forgot Gerrard was playing cause all our good play was coming down the Johnson / Sterling flank? Yet you didn't notice that Gerrard was playing about 50% of the passes that set those good plays in motion?


The problem with Gerrard is a confusing mix;

He's not playing at the top of his game at the moment and he's not controlling games the way we know he can. On the flip side, unless Gerrard is thundering forward and unleashing thunderbolts from 30 yards into the top corner then our fans are going to complaing that he's turned to rubbish and should be dropped.

He's set such an incredibly high standard in the top 1% of epl players - being just one of the top 15% of players is now, apparently, just unacceptable. He's now paying the price for being too good for too many years.

 

[gkmacca]

With all due respect, that in itself is a bit of a simplification. He's not 'paying the price for being too good for too many years'. Plenty of great LFC players got to the end of their time without some kind of routine negativity clicking in. He's had some flak in the past for drops in form and he's getting it now because many are genuinely concerned that he's not come through his recent ops as well as is claimed. Maybe it is, in part, his position and Rodgers' tactics, maybe it is, in part, some frustration on his part, but the eyes don't lie - there's some justification for fans' concern. It's not all just fickleness and ignorance.

Personally I'd prefer to say he's paying the price for playing through the pain barrier for a couple of years due to his groin problem. We all knew he had it and he still managed to be excellent on most occasions and sometimes still win games on his own. Then he came out, post-op, claiming he was finally free from pain and feeling fitter than he's felt for years. So that encouraged many fans not to expect he'd be back to the level of, say, five years ago, but at least better than he'd been while he'd been nursing his injury. Some joy and more energy would return to his game. And it didn't. He actually seems more out of sorts than he seemed when his groin was practically hanging from his bone. That's part of the reason for the anxiety. Declining powers is one thing, but there's been more to it than that.

 

[Wizardry]

With all due respect, that in itself is a bit of a simplification. He's not 'paying the price for being too good for too many years'. Plenty of great LFC players got to the end of their time without some kind of routine negativity clicking in. He's had some flak in the past for drops in form and he's getting it now because many are genuinely concerned that he's not come through his recent ops as well as is claimed. Maybe it is, in part, his position and Rodgers' tactics, maybe it is, in part, some frustration on his part, but the eyes don't lie - there's some justification for fans' concern. It's not all just fickleness and ignorance.

Personally I'd prefer to say he's paying the price for playing through the pain barrier for a couple of years due to his groin problem. We all knew he had it and he still managed to be excellent on most occasions and sometimes still win games on his own. Then he came out, post-op, claiming he was finally free from pain and feeling fitter than he's felt for years. So that encouraged many fans not to expect he'd be back to the level of, say, five years ago, but at least better than he'd been while he'd been nursing his injury. Some joy and more energy would return to his game. And it didn't. He actually seems more out of sorts than he seemed when his groin was practically hanging from his bone. That's part of the reason for the anxiety. Declining powers is one thing, but there's been more to it than that.

I think the comparison with other greats is a little unfair in this context because we're talking about a team of greats in those instances. When Kenny was reaching the end of his greatness he wasn't alone; we'd all watched his team mates doing the same thing so people worried about different members of the team.

When Barnes was reaching the end of his tenure it was agonising; remembering this man who shimmied down the side line so many times, combining pace with trickery and flair yet now watching him plod through midfield was devastating. The cup final against the mancs was what ended it for me. That said, our glory years weren't that far removed and we still had the relatively fresh memories of being champions.

This is different. I don't want to get into any debate about a player being bigger than the club but the reality is Gerrard has been our grasp of greatness for nearly a decade. Sure, we've had some other wonderful players like Owen, Fowler, Sami, Xabi, Torres etc but they were either never truly ours or they didn't dominate entire seasons, carrying us all the way through. I think this is where it's different for Gerrard; everyone associated with Liverpool has counted on Gerrard through all those seasons. They've been impressed with some other great players who've pulled on the shirt as well but we've counted on Gerrard - each and every one of us.

He's the one who's been watched most closely because he's been the most important player during that time by a long way. We've analysed and examined his play for so long and now, with that level of analysis and examination every lowering of the standard is noted and discussed far more. In his own words after "that hit", he's been "the man" for our club during that time. He's had as far to fall in terms of standard as Kenny, Souness, Rush and Barnes but the difference is he's done it on his own. He hasn't had a team of similarly great players to take the attention away.

Sure, he hasn't been at the standard of 4 years ago neither has he been that poor. The intensity of the public eye under which he has plyed his trade sees his every short coming emphasized and with that watchfulness has come dissappointment; unfair in my view but just the way it is. He'll never be the player he was, dominating the opposition but still a player I enjoy watching and admiring for the sheer class of his football. If everyone was "underperforming" to the same level as our captain we'd not be looking up at 5th and 6th. Not by a long way.

 

[StevieM]

It's not fucking rocket science - Gerrard's playing too deep.

Further forward, in the "hole" with a free role, feeding the forwards - get him operating in a place where he can hurt teams. He's not disciplined enough to be a DM and wasted out wide because it's a peripheral position.

Houllier knew it, Benitez knew it.

Lucas & Allen behind him doing all the dull stuff - let him loose to link up with Suarez...

 

[kingjulian]

^ This man....He knows!

 

[Wizardry]

It's not fucking rocket science - Gerrard's playing too deep.

Further forward, in the "hole" with a free role, feeding the forwards - get him operating in a place where he can hurt teams. He's not disciplined enough to be a DM and wasted out wide because it's a peripheral position.

Houllier knew it, Benitez knew it.

Lucas & Allen behind him doing all the dull stuff - let him loose to link up with Suarez...

We don't need both Lucas and Allen behind him - one will do.

Allen looks more effective further forward IMO. His quick passing will help unlock defenses if we have real movement in that forward third.