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Alisson - The best GK, we've ever had?

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Edersen and Alisson are probably at the right clubs in terms of maximising their strengths. Edersen in his kicking for City, Alisson in his sweeping and 1v1s. I am not sure if either clubs will swap keepers but I certainly wouldn't for us.

With how Brazil are playing at the moment, Alisson should be more suitable. If it were the free flowing attacking Brazil of the past, probably Edersen.

Brazil have an embarassment of riches, at least in the goalie department.
 
Plays a mean guitar and scores in the last minute with a worldy. He's fucking aces.

EDIT: And he's gorgeous to boot 😉
 
That's true, but less emphasis was placed on that side of things and it was treated as a useful extra rather than as a necessity in its own right. Clem's distribution for example was not in the same class as Alisson's is now, but he was so good at the basics (shot-stopping and command of his area) that it was never an issue.
 
How many back passes does Allison pick up per game?
None, But I'm not sure how that stat proves that Clemence or Grobelaar was a better keeper than Ali.
I'm not suggesting that Clemence or Grobelaar were bad keepers it's just that the modern game requires more skills such as sweeping and passing and all round football ability (as Keepers cnn no longer just pick up from back passes) that makes Ali our all time No 1.
 
Yeah, old keepers aren't as impressive for me. Like, obviously talented and if they were in the modern age with modern techniques, I'm sure they'd be great; but the modern game requires more from keepers now than it ever has
 
None, But I'm not sure how that stat proves that Clemence or Grobelaar was a better keeper than Ali.
I'm not suggesting that Clemence or Grobelaar were bad keepers it's just that the modern game requires more skills such as sweeping and passing and all round football ability (as Keepers cnn no longer just pick up from back passes) that makes Ali our all time No 1.
I think you are being unduly harsh Shay.
For sure keepers of Clem's era didn't need to have a high level passing game but that is not to say that he couldn't have developed that skillset if it was required, so it feels harsh to mark him down for that.
Conversely, I think Clemence and the top keepers of his era were better at dominating the penalty area when it comes to claiming crosses and corner kicks, all this in a time when they got less protection from more physical opponents. I suspect the decline in this skillset is largely down to the modern ball which is considerably easier to put spin and swerve on than the older ones.
Yet I don't think that this is a stick to beat modern keepers with because even if it seems like the skillset has declined, it is not really comparing like with like.

The same argument could be made for outfield players where pretty much every position has a need for different skills, that may not have been required forty years ago.

FWIW, when you just compare the skills that I believe are fairly comparable between Allisson and Clemence, I think that Becker shades it.
 
His memory is unfairly tainted by THAT game. Which was a complete horror story, yes. But he was concussed and it's understandable. I'm not saying that he was good enough for us - He wasn't, but, for example, though he wasn't as good as Mignolet overall, but I'll tell you what... He wasn't as bad as Mignolet was at the end - At one point, practically every shot on target against us went in with him (SM) in goals. He was pitiful at the end.

He claimed to have had a concussion.

A state he still seems to be in.
 
What would it take in your opinion for Ali to top him? Or is it just a case of longevity and carrying out his consistency over longer period?

Well, Clem won five leagues and three European Cups plus a host of other trophies in over 600 appearances as first choice for 11 years. He cost £18 grand.
He was also my hero growing up.
Alli is superb and I wouldn't swap him for any other keeper in the world but he has some way to got to top that.
 
Was a lot better than people give him credit for.

I never realised Bruce Grobbelaar had that many appearances.

Having suffered through endless games standing behind David James' goal both home and away over the time he was fist choice I can confirm that he was an overrated, preening dildo that cost us trophies.
 
What is PSxG? He had -2.3 to 10.1 a big swing, which one is better
Post-Shot Expected Goals (PSxG). +10.1 is better than -2.3

The key difference between xG and PSxG is that PSxG takes into account what happens to the shot once the ball has left a player’s boot.

For example, if two shots are taken from the same location under the same set of conditions, they would have the same xG value. However, if one of these shots is a scuffed effort put straight at the keeper, whilst the other is a clean strike towards the top corner of the goal, the former would have a significantly lower PSxG value than the latter.


This is by no means a revelation, but there are simply certain areas of the goal that are more beneficial to aim shots at. Although these areas differ based on the shot location and goalkeeper positioning, the corners of the goal generally represent the best odds of finding the back of the net.

Whilst some goalkeepers may catch the eye, pulling off save after save, this is often because they play in a team that faces a lot of shots. It may sound obvious, but the more shots a keeper faces, the more saves they are likely to make.

By the same token, goalkeepers playing behind watertight defences may boast impressive clean sheets and save percentage records, but this is likely a result of their team’s system limiting their opposition to few and low-quality chances, rather than being entirely attributable to their own individual brilliance.

It is therefore clear that relying on ‘volume-based’ stats is an insufficient method for telling how good a goalkeeper is.

Because PSxG factors in the quality of the shot taken rather than just the quality of the opportunity, a goalkeeper’s ability to make saves can be universally judged by the difference between their goals conceded and the PSxG of the chances they face. Conceding fewer goals than PSxG suggests indicates an above-average number one.
 
We need him to dial it down. The only time he got negative PSexGXP we won the league
He was probably fine until those dreadful games after the league restarted where no one got going again.
 
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