A few thoughts

[mark1975]

The pivotal role in the side at the moment, if we're talking about pinpointing error, is at the back. Most good sides are built on a solid backbone and that just isn't there at the minute, because of the indifferent form of Carra and Skrtel, and Mascherano being in and out the side. I thought Skrtel had a good game yesterday, Carra was once again culpable on more than one occassion, he needs a rest and time to sit back and watch the game and reassess things.

I don't really lay much blame at the feet of Torres and Gerrard (or Lucas for that matter), they were below par but by and large you know they will play well and create and score goals. When other areas of the side aren't functioning, it's like a cancer, the lack of confidence and understanding spreads throughout the side. You see players covering for other players, sacrificing part of their own game for the cause, it's contributory. The fullbacks aren't helping either, neither tuck in and cover and their positional sense is dire at times.

Making Lucas the scapegoat is a sign of desperation and a sad case of 'wood/trees', we need to sort ourselves out at the back, sort the system out, gain solidity and the rest will follow.

 

[Squiggles]

There were promising signs in the defence, I thought - apart from corners - good old zonal (no) marking - we looked reasonably assured until the second goal. Although they were under considerable pressure towards the end of the first half and through parts of the second, that was primarily the result of our midfield being outplayed. Skrtel was really, really good. I thought he deserved to be dropped for this game but it was a fine performance. Carragher, until the mistake looked... better, but his error did overshadow his performance. Benitez would need a lot of balls to drop his vice-captain for Daniel Agger.

Chelsea played superbly last night and I think there's a danger of over-analysing our own ineffectiveness and negating this fact.

 

[mark1975]

[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=36283.msg957793#msg957793 date=1254732581]
There were promising signs in the defence, I thought - apart from corners - good old zonal (no) marking - we looked reasonably assured until the second goal. Although they were under considerable pressure towards the end of the first half and through parts of the second, that was primarily the result of our midfield being outplayed. Skrtel was really, really good. I thought he deserved to be dropped for this game but it was a fine performance. Carragher, until the mistake looked... better, but his error did overshadow his performance. Benitez would need a lot of balls to drop his vice-captain for Daniel Agger.

Chelsea played superbly last night and I think there's a danger of over-analysing our own ineffectiveness and negating this fact.
[/quote]

True, I thought their experience showed and I think that might just edge it in the title race. Our defending from setpieces though was still iffy, Deco should have buried that free header, the difference between both sides was once again marginal in terms of open play, yet we could easily have walked away on the end of a 3-0 defeat, that's how brittle we are right now.

 

[Judge Jules]

The problem as I see it involves Lucas but isn't directly his fault. What I mean by that is that he's been asked to replace Alonso and was never, ever going to be up to it. I can understand Rafa's reluctance to move Stevie from his new role, but IMO that's clearly what has to happen unless and until we find another way - hopefully via Aquilani - of restoring our midfield closer to the level of effectiveness Mascher and Alonso reached in the latter part of last season. Without that, the whole system is out of whack and the form of a number of individuals is suffering as a result.

 

[Squiggles]

[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=36283.msg957795#msg957795 date=1254732851]
The problem as I see it involves Lucas but isn't directly his fault. What I mean by that is that he's been asked to replace Alonso and was never, ever going to be up to it. I can understand Rafa's reluctance to move Stevie from his new role, but IMO that's clearly what has to happen unless and until we find another way - hopefully via Aquilani - of restoring our midfield closer to the level of effectiveness Mascher and Alonso reached in the latter part of last season. Without that, the whole system is out of whack and the form of a number of individuals is suffering as a result.
[/quote]

Completely agreed but it's already cost us greatly, and Benitez is culpable.

You can argue all you want about about Lucas but Rafa clearly has too much faith in the kid. Shame 'cos he's having his best year so far but it's not been good enough to cover for Alonso.

 

[Vlads Quiff]

I agree to an extent Mark, although I tend to agree more with the midfield issue.
People are pointing the finger at Mashcher for losing the ball stupidly, from my recollection it was in their half or on the halfway line anyway, I think it's a bit tough to put that soley on the toes of Mascherano.
The defence has looked our Achilles heal all year, although I agree Skrtel is looking more comfortable, and Drogba and Anelka are decent players.
I am not having a pop at Lucas for the sake of it or because he is playing badly, which in general he isn't, not great, but not bad.
The problem is fairly clear, and was obvious in the first few games, Mascher and Lucas just do not compliment each other in the middle where the sum of their whole is a lot less than would be expected, similarly to the Gerrard and Alonso partnership, when they rarely played well together (considering they could have been judged two of the very best in the world). The midfield is not creating enough, as it was yesterday. You should expect to go to Chelsea and expect to have to score a goal to get something out of the game, we missed chances, but there were not enough created.
As the other thread has it Lucas should be benched and Stevie dropped back with Yossi in the hole.
Still lets see what happens with Rafa's gamble with Aquilani

regards

 

[spider-Neil]

rafa isn't going to drop carra, it just isn't going to happen. I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[Vlads Quiff]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=36283.msg957814#msg957814 date=1254735303]
rafa isn't going to drop carra, it just isn't going to happen. I'll believe it when I see it.
[/quote]

I think you underestimate Rafa's ruthlessness Spider

regards

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=36283.msg957837#msg957837 date=1254737047]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=36283.msg957814#msg957814 date=1254735303]
rafa isn't going to drop carra, it just isn't going to happen. I'll believe it when I see it.
[/quote]

I think you underestimate Rafa's ruthlessness Spider

regards
[/quote]

betcha. not including the CC (he even played v leeds) I bet carra will play every league and CL till christmas.

 

[Scotino]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=36283.msg957847#msg957847 date=1254738003]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=36283.msg957837#msg957837 date=1254737047]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=36283.msg957814#msg957814 date=1254735303]
rafa isn't going to drop carra, it just isn't going to happen. I'll believe it when I see it.
[/quote]

I think you underestimate Rafa's ruthlessness Spider

regards
[/quote]

betcha. not including the CC (he even played v leeds) I bet carra will play every league and CL till christmas.
[/quote]

That seems to show that Rafa is of the opinion that Carra needs games to play himself into form as against being dropped from the starting line up.

 

[Squiggles]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=36283.msg957847#msg957847 date=1254738003]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=36283.msg957837#msg957837 date=1254737047]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=36283.msg957814#msg957814 date=1254735303]
rafa isn't going to drop carra, it just isn't going to happen. I'll believe it when I see it.
[/quote]

I think you underestimate Rafa's ruthlessness Spider

regards
[/quote]

betcha. not including the CC (he even played v leeds) I bet carra will play every league and CL till christmas.
[/quote]

I'll take that bet.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=36283.msg957894#msg957894 date=1254744169]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=36283.msg957847#msg957847 date=1254738003]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=36283.msg957837#msg957837 date=1254737047]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=36283.msg957814#msg957814 date=1254735303]
rafa isn't going to drop carra, it just isn't going to happen. I'll believe it when I see it.
[/quote]

I think you underestimate Rafa's ruthlessness Spider

regards
[/quote]

betcha. not including the CC (he even played v leeds) I bet carra will play every league and CL till christmas.
[/quote]

I'll take that bet.
[/quote]

I'm not talking being rested for a game insolation I mean proper benched.
okay, how about this for a bet; excluding the CC and the FAC if carra is on the bench for 3 games in a row or more in the league or CL I will be pay £20 to the HJC if he doesn't up till christman then you have to pay that money.

 

[Squiggles]

[flash=200,200]http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/PlhU-Ivj1u0[/flash]

= Neil

 

[Vlads Quiff]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=36283.msg957897#msg957897 date=1254744458]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=36283.msg957894#msg957894 date=1254744169]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=36283.msg957847#msg957847 date=1254738003]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=36283.msg957837#msg957837 date=1254737047]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=36283.msg957814#msg957814 date=1254735303]
rafa isn't going to drop carra, it just isn't going to happen. I'll believe it when I see it.
[/quote]

I think you underestimate Rafa's ruthlessness Spider

regards
[/quote]

betcha. not including the CC (he even played v leeds) I bet carra will play every league and CL till christmas.
[/quote]

I'll take that bet.
[/quote]

I'm not talking being rested for a game insolation I mean proper benched.
okay, how about this for a bet; excluding the CC and the FAC if carra is on the bench for 3 games in a row or more in the league or CL I will be pay £20 to the HJC if he doesn't up till christman then you have to pay that money.
[/quote]

I am not sure many would be on the bench for three games in a row at the best of times.
It is rather subjective as to if he is dropped or rested, but I will wager a tenner that if Carra does not show a marked increase in form and Agger and Skrtel are both fit, Carra will be benched one way or the other in the prem between now and Christmas.

Mine will go to isaac's house

http://www.isaacshouse.org/

regards

regards

regards

 

[mark1975]

[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=36283.msg958018#msg958018 date=1254755621]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=36283.msg957897#msg957897 date=1254744458]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=36283.msg957894#msg957894 date=1254744169]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=36283.msg957847#msg957847 date=1254738003]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=36283.msg957837#msg957837 date=1254737047]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=36283.msg957814#msg957814 date=1254735303]
rafa isn't going to drop carra, it just isn't going to happen. I'll believe it when I see it.
[/quote]

I think you underestimate Rafa's ruthlessness Spider

regards
[/quote]

betcha. not including the CC (he even played v leeds) I bet carra will play every league and CL till christmas.
[/quote]

I'll take that bet.
[/quote]

I'm not talking being rested for a game insolation I mean proper benched.
okay, how about this for a bet; excluding the CC and the FAC if carra is on the bench for 3 games in a row or more in the league or CL I will be pay £20 to the HJC if he doesn't up till christman then you have to pay that money.
[/quote]

I am not sure many would be on the bench for three games in a row at the best of times.
It is rather subjective as to if he is dropped or rested, but I will wager a tenner that if Carra does not show a marked increase in form and Agger and Skrtel are both fit, Carra will be benched one way or the other in the prem between now and Christmas.

Mine will go to isaac's house

http://www.isaacshouse.org/

regards

regards

regards
[/quote]

Ha... typically, he'll probably end up being benched over the heavy Christmas schedule, probably on Boxing Day or something 😉

 

[Loch Ness Monster]

Not many teams go to OT, The bridge, or The Emirates and turn them over. We managed to thash the scum last year, but this happens once every total eclipse. Most top 4 teams go to their rivals with the intent of keeping it tight, hoping for no mistakes, and chancing their arm at sneaking one on the counter attack. We were not too far off that plan at HT yesterday. 2 x individual mistakes cost us dearly, the first was the most disappointing due to them still having so much to do following the mistake by Mascher.
Dont go tying those nooses just yet chaps.

 

[Judge Jules]

Good post and I would largely agree. The problem though is that now we've used up most if not all of any margin of error we might otherwise have had. It's still doable, but we can't really afford any slip-ups at all now.