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when paul 'look on the bright side of life' tompkins turns on you

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spider-Neil

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you know you're in trouble

http://tomkinstimes.com/2010/10/nice-man-wrong-job/

My new book ranks managers in a unique way: amongst other things, working out how much it cost them to win each point, in relation to the expense of team they sent out in every single one of their games.

In reference only to Premier League games, it shows that Graeme Souness did a great job at Blackburn. (He even won the League Cup, but we looked only at the league.)

It shows that, in the end, Roy Hodgson did a terrible job at Blackburn (the worst relegation ever, for which he was largely responsible, as the man who guided the team to just one win in their first 14 games).

It shows that Souness did a terrible job at Newcastle (and Liverpool, but you knew that already).

It shows that Hodgson did a great job at Fulham. (But not better than Chris Coleman, incidentally.)

Above all else, we highlight, time and time again, examples of good managers faltering when asked to manage bigger clubs.

In his last 21 league games at a club expected to finish in the top six (Blackburn and Liverpool), Hodgson has won a measly two. Two wins. He left Blackburn when they were rooted to the bottom; he currently has Liverpool in the relegation zone.

But Roy seems oblivious.



“It is insulting to suggest that because you move to a new club, your methods suddenly don’t work when they’ve held you in good stead for 35 years and made you one of the most respected coaches in Europe. It’s unbelievable.â€

Joe Kinnear did a great job at Wimbledon in the ‘90s; no big club in their right mind would want him anywhere near them these days. (And that’s right, at the time Newcastle weren’t a club in their right mind, either.)

Different methods are needed at different clubs because a different kind of result and performance is expected. The pressure if very different, on you and your players. You cannot set up to sit off teams when you’re a big club.

And every last error is magnified. But that’s the reason why those who succeed are made of different stuff.

Now, I write this not from the perspective of someone who expected Liverpool to be in the top four, now or in May. Or even the top eight at this point, after the fixtures we’ve had.

I write it from a refusal to accept that even with the financial problems, this is a bottom-half-of-the-table side, let alone one that should be in the relegation zone, even at what remains an early stage of the season. Teething problems are to be expected; but this feels like a dentist going at us with a pair of rusty pliers, turning a modest smile into a bloody grimace.

Yet I’ve been inundated with suggestions that it’s all Rafa’s fault. They keep coming, on and on and on. On Sky Sports, Jamie Redknapp, aided and abetted by Richard Keys and the guilt-free Souness, blamed Rafa. He’d spent loads of money and the squad wasn’t good enough.

Well, not good enough for what? Only a year ago most of those players were supposed to be good enough to challenge for the title, and it was apparently only Benítez holding them back. As many as 15 of them were at the World Cup (not always as superstars, but there all the same).

Alan Hansen is now blaming players left by Rafa, such as Ngog (our top goalscorer this season), Kyrgiakos (gives 100%) and has said Kuyt never steps up to the plate. He says it’s too early to judge Roy’s summer signings, but did criticise Jovanovic, Rafa’s summer signing.

The Squad This Summer

Hansen also mentions that Roy inherited a one-man team. I thought Alan could count a bit better than that.

Reina, Gerrard, Torres: three of the best players in their position in the country, if not the world. Any club would want them, and Rafa bought two of the three. (Same applied to Mascherano.)

Agger: a thoroughbred centre-back. Wanted by AC Milan in the fairly recent past. Skrtel: another very fine centre-back. Roughly £6m each. Kyrgiakos: about as decent as you’ll get for 4th choice at £1.5m. Then there’s Carragher; well past his best, but not exactly finished. (Trouble is, he’s undroppable.)

Johnson: one of the best attacking right-backs in the world; in the right system, likely to create loads of chances in a game (defending not the best, but faults exaggerated this season from being too exposed).

Aquilani: over his injury problems, and such a clever player who’s … now in the Juventus team. Not that Liverpool are short of passing invention (sigh). Effectively given away for the season.

Lucas, Maxi: not spectacular, but good enough to play for Brazil and Argentina. Maxi, in particular, became a key player towards the end of last season. Lucas seemed to be really progressing last season too, but has struggled this year. Then again, he looks like Pele next to Poulsen, who has usurped him.

Jovanovic – another experienced international. Not sure about him yet, but pedigree is there. Insua is another player who came in for criticism, but had the potential to improve; at 21, full-backs are just starting out.

Kuyt: not everyone’s cup of tea, but almost every manager in the game sings his praises. Integral to Holland reaching World Cup final. Guarantees 10-15 goals from the wing almost every season, and as many assists. Does the work of two players. (Hansen thinks he never steps up to the plate, but look at all the goals he’s scored and created in big games.)

Kelly and Pacheco: two youngsters with a lot of quality. Not really been trusted in the league this season, even though they are now one year older and, people expected, sure to be knocking on the door. Pacheco not even making the bench. Jonjo Shelvey – one for the future, and possibly the near future at the rate Poulsen is going. N’Gog – just 21, and just £1.5m, but seven goals already this season. Kelly was home-grown, Pacheco part of Rafa’s Spanish connection.

Ryan Babel – frustrating? Hell yes. Likely the leave, whatever happens? Yes, too. But also, good from the bench? Yes, clearly. Not trusted before the Northampton game and now totally bombed out as a result. Roy said he’d been unfairly treated in the past, but now fails to even include him in the entire squad (and this is without inappropriate Twittering). Always a handy option with his pace on the wing, but Roy sees him as a striker (who doesn’t play), and Roy doesn’t use wingers.

Benayoun and Mascharano were also part of the squad Rafa left. Of course, they’ve moved on, through no fault of Roy’s. But Roy did get £26m from those two to buy replacements. Riera and a couple of others went, too, which at least allowed Roy to bring in a number of his own players, four of whom have been regular starters when fit.

But of course, Roy didn’t get all of the transfer money to reinvest; it’s wrong to expect the squad to be quite as strong as it was. Yet by the logic used to frequently slate Rafa, Roy “has spent a lot of moneyâ€; the Reds were behind only Manchester City and Chelsea in terms of money ‘spent’. However, the Reds ranked 1st in terms of money recouped. Rafa’s net spend was never that high; Roy’s isn’t either.

All in all, however, there’s enough there to be expecting a whole lot better than the relegation zone at this stage (for the first time in over 50 years) and out of a domestic cup to the lowest-ranked team to beat the Reds in 50 years. Rafa was sacked because he could only finish 7th with players that the media said should be doing better. The summer was supposed to be all about the feelgood factor: Gerrard, Torres, Cole; new manager, hip hip hooray.

There’s been no great injury crisis, and if anything, the Reds have had a bit of the luck (contrast Sunderland goal with beach ball one, and bizarre free-kick award against Blackpool) that they lacked last season. But worse than the results, performances have been universally poor; every single first-half in 14 games has been dire. Last year was pretty bad, but there were good displays too.

There’s been no apparent method, and rather than tighten up at the back, it’s as if Phil Babb has returned with his mate Tubby Ruddock. The centre of the midfield was so invisible at times against Blackpool it was as stupefying. Gerrard was AWOL and Poulsen was lost at sea, considered dead.

The stats are damning. Liverpool have had just 65 attempts at goal this season, and the opposition have had 77 against us. Stoke have had more goal attempts.

What the Rafa-haters didn’t foresee was that while a change of manager might help some players, it could also hinder others.

“My methods have translated from Halmstads to Malmo to Orebro to Neuchatel Xamax to the Swiss national team and many other jobs as well.†Roy Hodgson.

But not to Blackburn, and only moderately so to Inter Milan (15 years ago; good first season, less good second season).

And with all due respect, none of those clubs Roy mentioned is in a major league, or is a major nation; these are not household names. Roy had the Swiss national team playing well in 1994; but then Roy Evans had Liverpool playing well around the same time. George Graham took Arsenal to a European final that year. Football has evolved dramatically in that time.

Liverpool still have a core of excellent players. And the club has its talent on the fringes. It may not be a top four squad anymore, due to too many sales in relation to purchases since 2008, but is should not even be a bottom-half of the table squad, let alone end the weekend in the relegation zone for the first time since 1964 (after a minimum of three games played).

Conceding six goals at home to Northampton, Sunderland and Blackpool, and winning none of those games, all in the space of 10 days, is unacceptable. The performances have offered nothing to cling on to. In the three most recent Anfield games the Reds have been outclassed. Blackpool were a credit to the game of football.

I’m not especially angry at Roy. I feel some sympathy for him; I don’t enjoy watching a man apparently out of his depth, flailing and drowning.

But he should not have been appointed in the first place. I won’t bring myself to say he must be sacked – he has the job, so now he needs to prove he deserves it – but as I said in the summer, his appointment was always more of a risk than the ‘safe hands’ tag suggested. And if his team loses the Merseyside derby, the calls for his resignation will be deafening.

‘Going English’ with the manager and transfers might have worked as a policy, but it needed money; therefore, drastic change was not a wise move. James Milner is a good English player, for example. He cost £26m. But without the budget, the Reds tried a sea-change, a U-turn.

This is all the folly of Christian Purslow, and that of his media cronies who badgered Benítez at every turn. (Yes, you know who you are.)

The history of warning was there with Hodgson at Blackburn, and the history there was in Spain, too.

As soon as Rafa left Valencia they crumbled. Spectacularly. The players who had wanted him gone realised the error of their ways. Valencia overachieved massively during his three seasons. After, they didn’t so much find their true level as sink right through it.

If you replace a world-class manager, you need to get it right.

Roy’s Mistakes?

• Calling the players who lost in the Carling Cup the ‘B team’, and blaming it all on them.

• Picking a full-strength team away in the Europa League, and expecting Torres’ muscles to be 100% three days later. I thought he was going to use the ‘B’ team in the early stages, as he did at Fulham?

• Not buying a striker; I know Rafa struggled to find one at the right price, but it was the clear priority of the summer. Aquilani was bought to replace Alonso, and was now fit; and so, instead of going for Meireles and then not using him properly, why not keep Aquilani and buy a striker?

• Leaving it to the 80-minute mark in several games to make the first change, when a result was needed.

• And do we really want to see Kyrgiakos as a centre-forward late in games against Northampton and Blackpool? Admittedly it nearly worked, but if we have to resort to desperate long-balls rather than try and play through lesser teams at Anfield, it’s a sign of grave concern.

• Alienating Agger. Potentially a world-class centre-back. But doesn’t fit Roy’s style, which involves not taking chances with footballers in defence. One of the best players at the club, but not utilised.

• Loaning out Insua and Aquilani, without sufficient replacements. (Might not all be Roy’s fault, this one, with Insua apparently offered to clubs by the Reds’ hierarchy.)

• Paying £5m for mediocre players who are near the end of their careers (Konchesky, and the frankly risible Poulsen). Paying £11m for Meireles – a very good player – and using him as a wide midfielder (albeit one forced to play horribly narrow). Saying Rafael Van Der Vaart doesn’t fit the profile of the kind of player he was interested in.

Biggest Error

And the biggest one of all: taking a team with players suited to pressing and rather than working with what he had, trying to reverse it. If anything was broken under Benítez, it was his relationship with Carragher and Gerrard, and one or two less-influential players.

The tactics were not the issue (look at how they were often successfully deployed at the World Cup) and maybe now people are seeing that.

Liverpool pressed high and hard – and fast from the start – and it suited Torres, Kuyt and Gerrard. It made it easier to create chances, because errors were forced. It gave the game some energy.

It now suits Samuel Eto’o at Inter: “With Mourinho we played on the counter-attack, with Benítez we press more and that’s better for us forwards because we win back the ball higher up the pitch and create more chances.â€

Eto’o has 11 goals already this season, after just 16 last time. Torres has … one.

Last season I noted that Rafa was the only manager to get more than an average amount of goals from Torres. At the time, I wasn’t sure if it was just coincidence, or maybe due to the very detailed and specific advice Rafa gave him (which Torres said was incredible). Now, I’m starting to think it was mostly tactical.

Torres’ goal record in Spain was not the best; consistent, yes, but never above 13 from open play in a season (in one year he scored six additional goals from the spot). For Spain, it’s a decent international record, but not outstanding. (Spain also press, but they often delay the final pass; Torres needs the ball earlier.)

For Torres under Hodgson, it’s … one goal in nine games.

Now, he hasn’t been 100% fit. And it’s early days. But he wasn’t fully fit for large parts of the previous two seasons. And he still got 14 in 24, and 18 in 22, in those two Premier League campaigns. Often he was coming back from injury, but rarely did he look this out of sorts. Rarely was he so starved of service, so isolated; an island within Anfield.

Perhaps the new style of play doesn’t suit him? He’ll always be a great striker – pace, power, eye for all types of goal – but the tactics were always tailored to his strengths. Now it seems tailored to the strengths of Bobby Zamora.

Now, if Roy wants to change the team’s entire style, that’s down to him. But it can be argued that it makes more sense to work with what he has (or for the club to employ someone to do so), in a way that suits the players, than force his ideas onto them; especially as he doesn’t have the money to buy those who’d fit better into his system. (Not being funny, but right now, Emile Heskey would probably be better at what Torres is being asked to do.)

The style – which Hodgson has made clear he’s carried with him for 35 years – is being forced onto the players. If it works, great. If it doesn’t? Buck. Stops. There.

The next few weeks are vital in the future of the club, and so any decision can wait until that is resolved, and until after the Everton game. Win that game, and Roy might have a chance of taking his ideas into a new regime (if one finally arrives).

Fickle

I don’t want to appear fickle, but can I really be that if I never wanted him in the first place? I said as much in the summer. I didn’t say that Roy would definitely fail, but I did feel that his experience at Blackburn should not be brushed under the carpet, and that his achievements at Fulham, while admirable, do not necessarily transfer to a bigger club. I looked at his low-scoring teams that eked out a lot of draws, and that included his previous jobs at Blackburn and Inter Milan too.

Yes, I continue to remain annoyed at how the world-class manager we had was treated. But that’s a separate issue to this. (Although the media keep merging the two.)

If you have to sack a manager, you find a suitable replacement; not just one who speaks perfect English and makes life as easy as possible for you. And you don’t try to reverse a successful culture (Spanish) for one that has more faults. After all, how many great English players has the club purchased in the last 20 years? And how many great Spanish ones in the last six years alone?

If Roy stays, and turns things around, I’ll happily hold up my hands. If he wins, I win too. But if he fails, and fails as thoroughly as he currently is, it needs pointing out.

It needs pointing out that the owners are a cancer, and that those running the club know next to nothing about football. It needs to be pointed out that some players wanted an English manager, who would comfort them. We needed rid of rotation, zonal marking, Gerard in centre-midfield, 4-4-2, and a manager who didn’t celebrate goals with backflips. How’s that working out?

It needs to be pointed out that on the basis of his team’s incoherent performances and his own bizarre press conferences, Roy Hodgson looks like the right man in the wrong job.

“I’ve had two-and-a-half wonderful years (at Fulham) where nothing ever negative was said about me and my team. Now maybe people are saying negative things. It doesn’t change anything. I work the same way as I did last year.†Roy Hodgson
 
Only two possible seeds in the back of our minds sprout to a sacking of Roy Hodgson. One is knee-jerkism. He can't win matches, and the team looks like shit. The other stems from looking ahead, extrapolating the current trajectory, and cutting losses, essentially betting that all else being equal - reduced revenue from loss of CL revenue, crippling interest payments, indebted absentee owners, borderline supporter mutiny, potential administration, possible relegation aside - the future is marginally better without Hodgson than with.

Knee-jerkism is a poisonous trait to have, to be sure. Six games into a new managerial reign may indeed be too little time to try, judge, and execute a new manager. Rafa's early results were worse than Roy's are now in some ways - a home loss to Graz versus 5 straight wins to start a European campaign. League results weren't that much better under Rafa in the early days. I'd argue that Trabzon is a tougher result than Anfield. It could get better with Roy here, and not someone else. After all, it's happened that way before.

However, it is my opinion that the best possible outcome for the future of the club probably does not involve Roy Hodgson at the helm of football matters. That much is clear. Even if future results get better, this team cannot evolve into anything substantial. It is too old, it is too expensive, it has too little money for replacements, and it is dangerously unbalanced to the detriment of certain glaring positions.

The competitions by which Roy is judged are at best distractions that will not earn enough for a Torres or Mascherano, assuming that Roy would even know one if he saw it. Those who masturbate to fantasies of a benevolent owner spunking his fortune on making sure you don't have to understand the concept of a viable business may now stop reading. That Graz result was worth a more than than the five UEFA cup results that Hodgson has mastered. A domestic cup run solves nothing. FA Cup prize money - even for the winner - will not pay Joe Cole's salary for the year. Fact.

Benitez prioritized the Champions League because reaching the final is worth about two league titles. First place in the league and seventh place in the league are separated by only 5m quid, or approximately one Christian Poulson. Reaching the final is worth 30m quid, or approximately 3 young Xabi Alonsos, if you got your scouting right. And Roy doesn't do body counts.

Even if we swerve every other potential disaster, this squad is aging, expensive, and will only get older and more expensive under current transfer policy. Just as Roy has no Plan B, Squad B, or Media Cheat Sheet B, his squad is quickly shooting its own future in the foot. Alonso, Garcia and Josemi or Poulsen, Meireles and Konchesky? Hint - the right answer includes a winning lottery ticket worth thirty million quid. We're not even buying the tickets now.

One thing that's striking about the communistic nature of American sport is that once a team knows it's licked, it immediately identifies the youth as either the future of the struggling club, or as bait for funding or replacements, and dumps the longterm contracts of the aging, knowing that results don't matter because there is a basement. If you're gonna lose, you might as well do it with Insua and Lucas instead of Poulsen and Konchesky. It's cheaper and you have two tickets to the Brazil 2014 lottery. Poulsen and Konchesky will be pensioners by the time Lucas and Insua go to Brazil.

But here, the difference in league positions means fuck all in financial terms; it serves only bragging rights. The competition for the top four's lucrative spots is fierce, and we won't get there with Roy's team. City has a bottomless pit of money. Ancellotti's team is a decent bet for best in Europe. United are flailing like King Kong falling off a building, but still own the wild cards. Spurs are borderline settled, with good signings, and are even performing well with injuries. Ged's got a point to prove at Villa, and his donkey's really excited. We on the other hand have Roy Hodgson, who is under mounds of pressure to deliver results in a league that doesn't even count financially, especially considering that winning the damn thing wouldn't even cover a quarter of our interest expense.

Every spot we gain in the league has a delta of practically Fuck All, outside of the top four (potential windfall) and the bottom three (utter financial disaster). Roy talks about the former, in a vague and broadly accepted as unattainable goal of "top four". We will not end up in the top four. Anywhere below doesn't really matter as long as it's above the bottom three.

So then what really is point of Roy Hodgson exactly? He's not the one who can sort through the Riojas, picking the rights one to drink and cellaring the rest. The longer he stays here, the more likely it is that he tries to raise money for overpriced aging shot-term solutions by selling what precious Riojas we have left. That is his policy. Insua should be a warning - 8 years younger than Konchesky, and probably makes half as much per week. Seventh place earns about 10m quid in prize money while twelfth earns 7m. We fuck him off for less than a million euros and then send 4 times that amount plus 2 kids to Fulham for a 29 year old journeyman backed up by a disgruntled centreback and a crock who refused a pay as you play deal for obvious reasons.

His transfer policy can't get the basics right. His matchday selections are even worse. Four centrebacks in a loss against a 4th division team with one of them up front, and not a sub until the end of the match.

To top it off, he himself is a steady the ship appointee on a three year deal worth 9m that cost a further 6.5m to hire. A manager on a 3 year contract who has no track record of delivering 3 years of results. His team features a number of new signings on 4 year contracts who have not delivered 4 years of results. A punter would be best off betting on a wilting of the tree, really, as opposed to a steadying of the ship.

If it's instant success we delude ourselves into expecting, Roy is probably not our best bet. That much is clear: there are no instant results, not even a dessert at the end of lunch at Nando's. If it's medium term survivalism we crave, Roy again is not the the answer, because the difference in revenue between league positions isn't even worth the millions of pounds it cost to bring him in. If it's laying the longer-term groundwork for future chess masters, Roy again is not is the answer. He spends on Poulsens when he has Luci.

The Roy Keane saga should a lesson in cutting losses early before they grow too large. The situation we find ourselves in is not one that Roy Hodgson is probably capable to solving. We have enough shit to worry about without mortgaging the future for journeymen who aren't delivering results. The longer he stays here, the deeper the hole he will dig for us to climb out of.

The risk of ending up with a geriatric squad on disproportionately large wages that has nothing to play for increases with each passing week. If he can't get the best out of what he has, what use is he exactly? At the very least, if all he's bringing is is shit wine to the party, he shouldn't be allowed to pop open the bottles that were stored for 2015.

We should cut our losses now. Kenny Dalglish is a better bet at steadying the ship, both on the pitch and off it. He asked for the job. He should be given it as soon as possible.


top post
 
Very well written article that gets straight to the heart of the matter.

The worry for him and us is that we persist with Roy Hodgson on the basis that 'he should be given time'.

When someone is out of their depth action needs to be taken swiftly for his and our sake.
 
[quote author=jexykrodic link=topic=42143.msg1188272#msg1188272 date=1286198675]
Very well written article that gets straight to the heart of the matter.

The worry for him and us is that we persist with Roy Hodgson on the basis that 'he should be given time'.

When someone is out of their depth action needs to be taken swiftly for his and our sake.
[/quote]

that's exactly how I feel. it's not 'the liverpool way' but when someone is clearly out of their depth you have to take action and try and salvage the season.
 
The whole 'Liverpool Way' thing seems to have been used over the years just for people to object to something that they don't want to happen.

The Liverpool Way is winning matches and ultimately winning trophies. We won't do that under Roy Hodgson and even with time, although I am sure things will improve, are there any signs that they will improve anywhere near enough to make the wait worthwhile?
 
He shouldn't have been appointed. He hasn't stabilised and there are more questions now than ever. He hasn't motivated the players, addressed the areas of concern in our squad, improved like for like positions, improved results, shown tactical nous, inspired hope, inspired fandom.
He is already a busted flush, and giving him until Christmas won't help.
His sole fucking m.o was to come in, simplify, motivate, tell the players they are the best in the fucking world, make forward thinking progressive changes when things are mired down on the pitch.
He has failed In Even the basics of a managers job and he needs rooting out immediately.
 
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=42143.msg1188279#msg1188279 date=1286199505]
Yep. Sad but true. Or do we give him 14 games like Blackburn did ?
[/quote]
Birmingham - Draw
Sunderland - Draw
Northampton - Loss
Utrecht - Draw
Blackpool - Loss

Those results inside the first 2 months of the season are quite enough for me.
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=42143.msg1188278#msg1188278 date=1286199223]
He shouldn't have been appointed. He hasn't stabilised and there are more questions now than ever. He hasn't motivated the players, addressed the areas of concern in our squad, improved like for like positions, improved results, shown tactical nous, inspired hope, inspired fandom.
He is already a busted flush, and giving him until Christmas won't help.
His sole fucking m.o was to come in, simplify, motivate, tell the players they are the best in the fucking world, make forward thinking progressive changes when things are mired down on the pitch.
He has failed In Even the basics of a managers job and he needs rooting out immediately.
[/quote]

Fuckin 'ell I wasn't that hard on him, and was getting called a cunt yesterday, welcome to the club.
 
[quote author=Richey link=topic=42143.msg1188277#msg1188277 date=1286199143]
The whole 'Liverpool Way' thing seems to have been used over the years just for people to object to something that they don't want to happen.

The Liverpool Way is winning matches and ultimately winning trophies. We won't do that under Roy Hodgson and even with time, although I am sure things will improve, are there any signs that they will improve anywhere near enough to make the wait worthwhile?
[/quote]

c'mon, you'd have to say 'the liverpool way' includes;
* giving giving the manager at least a season
* not booing at matches
* support for the team (at the match) despite what you see on the pitch
* applauding the opposition keeper


the whole 9 yards. it's all 'the liverpool way'. and I agree with the liverpool way but in this instance (sacking roy) I'm willing to make an exception.
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=42143.msg1188283#msg1188283 date=1286199771]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=42143.msg1188279#msg1188279 date=1286199505]
Yep. Sad but true. Or do we give him 14 games like Blackburn did ?
[/quote]
Birmingham - Draw
Sunderland - Draw
Northampton - Loss
Utrecht - Draw
Blackpool - Loss

Those results inside the first 2 months of the season are quite enough for me.
[/quote]

it was earlier for me, not because of the results but because of the clueless manner in which those results were achieved.
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=42143.msg1188290#msg1188290 date=1286199953]
[quote author=Richey link=topic=42143.msg1188277#msg1188277 date=1286199143]
The whole 'Liverpool Way' thing seems to have been used over the years just for people to object to something that they don't want to happen.

The Liverpool Way is winning matches and ultimately winning trophies. We won't do that under Roy Hodgson and even with time, although I am sure things will improve, are there any signs that they will improve anywhere near enough to make the wait worthwhile?
[/quote]

c'mon, you'd have to say 'the liverpool way' includes;
* giving giving the manager at least a season
* not booing at matches
* support for the team (at the match) despite what you see on the pitch
* applauding the opposition keeper


the whole 9 yards. it's all 'the liverpool way'. and I agree with the liverpool way but in this instance (sacking roy) I'm willing to make an exception.
[/quote]Well then you dont agree with it do you.
I (boringly) again agree with Richey. whatever suits us is the Liverpool way.
 
I never read any smallprint that says 'The Liverpool Way' has anything to do with putting up with shitbag results and crap managers who have nothing to do with our history.
 
[quote author=crump link=topic=42143.msg1188295#msg1188295 date=1286200214]
I never read any smallprint that says 'The Liverpool Way' has anything to do with putting up with shitbag results and crap managers who have nothing to do with our history.
[/quote]

Yup
 
[quote author=crump link=topic=42143.msg1188295#msg1188295 date=1286200214]
I never read any smallprint that says 'The Liverpool Way' has anything to do with putting up with shitbag results and crap managers who have nothing to do with our history.
[/quote]Exactly Crump.
 
Is there anyone left in the LRA! Brigade?

They've lost Squiggles now. Oncey's gone too. Is it just mark1975 and Stulikesbudgie?
 
The 'Liverpool Way' does not include being in the relegation zone.

Point is most of us knew this was the wrong appointment, which meant we were gonna have to make a change again sooner rather than later. But then it's no secret that the club is in the hands of people who don't seem to give a toss, I think worrying about the 'Liverpool Way' at this point a luxury we're a long long way away from being able to afford.
 
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=42143.msg1188302#msg1188302 date=1286200372]
Is there anyone left in the LRA! Brigade?

They've lost Squiggles now. Oncey's gone too. Is it just mark1975 and Stulikesbudgie?
[/quote]

marky has moved over to the dark side
 
[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=42143.msg1188304#msg1188304 date=1286200482]

Point is most of us knew this was the wrong appointment.
[/quote]

Thing is, I actually didn't. I didn't think it was so bad. But I was wrong. The whole thing is a mess and considering the thing that everyone expected him to do - get everyone in the right frame of mind, fighting for each other and believing in themselves - is the thing he's failed at worst since day one, they should be changing the locks at his office right now.

I just hope that the dudes in the boardroom can throw their hands up and admit it too. Come on Purslow, I've got it off my chest and I feel a bit better for it. Just say you were wrong and sort it out.
 
[quote author=gene hughes link=topic=42143.msg1188307#msg1188307 date=1286200536]
Roy Hodgson shits a lack of support in fan forums.
[/quote]Hahaha.
 
[quote author=crump link=topic=42143.msg1188312#msg1188312 date=1286200679]
[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=42143.msg1188304#msg1188304 date=1286200482]

Point is most of us knew this was the wrong appointment.
[/quote]

Thing is, I actually didn't. I didn't think it was so bad. But I was wrong. The whole thing is a mess and considering the thing that everyone expected him to do - get everyone in the right frame of mind, fighting for each other and believing in themselves - is the thing he's failed at worst since day one, they should be changing the locks at his office right now.

I just hope that the dudes in the boardroom can throw their hands up and admit it too. Come on Purslow, I've got it off my chest and I feel a bit better for it. Just say you were wrong and sort it out.
[/quote]

Well the dudes in the Boardroom fucked up on the Manager, and there the ones who pick the buyer!

Lets hope the one mistake is it!
 
[quote author=JimmyK link=topic=42143.msg1188317#msg1188317 date=1286200859]
I'm a big fan of Tomkins and this is spot on.
[/quote]

A big fan of Bumpkins?

OH DEAR
 
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=42143.msg1188302#msg1188302 date=1286200372]
Is there anyone left in the LRA! Brigade?

They've lost Squiggles now. Oncey's gone too. Is it just mark1975 and Stulikesbudgie?
[/quote]When was I in that? I've always been fairly down on Roy. Starting with mild age based jibes and escalating to all out hatred. I do think it was unfair to savage him based on a bunch of very tricky fixtures. I was vocally worried after the Birmingham result though based on how we played.
 
[quote author=JimmyK link=topic=42143.msg1188317#msg1188317 date=1286200859]
I'm a big fan of Tomkins and this is spot on.
[/quote]

I have to be honest, the article surprised me as paul attempts to find the bright side of 'everyone' (like dreamy on acid) but when paul is ripping into you, you know things are bad.
 
[quote author=gene hughes link=topic=42143.msg1188307#msg1188307 date=1286200536]
Roy Hodgson shits a lack of support in fan forums.
[/quote]

Ha ha ha Roy does a lot of shitting it seems
 
[quote author=JimmyK link=topic=42143.msg1188317#msg1188317 date=1286200859]
I'm a big fan of Tomkins and this is spot on.
[/quote]What!? You know it's not the lad out of Ballykissangel right?
 
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