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RefVARees

Discussion in 'The Football Forum' started by Halmeister, Nov 2, 2019.

  1. dantes

    dantes Well-Known Member

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    If I'm following correctly, then the building is 200m tall, so the top is further away, looking smaller, like the sheep, small, far away.

    Firmino is 1.8m tall. The vertical perspective is never going to lead to a slanted line. Even across the width of the pitch, you barely notice the narrowing. Also, the lines aren't part of the image. They are drawn on afterwards, so should be dead straight. Unless you are anal and want to correct for the 0.004 degree perspective correction.
     
  2. Frogfish

    Frogfish Gone to Redcafe Member

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    Indeed it will almost certainly lead to a slanted line (and did as you see). A lot depends on the camera lens. Use a wide angle lens (it's highly unlikely they are using anything else) and take a photo from low down of a model - her legs are going to look very long and head smaller in proportion. From high up big head small legs. Same principle applies here.
     
  3. Judge Jules

    Judge Jules SCM Addict Member

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    Some blueslime to$$pot was claiming on the radio just now that we're benefiting from lots of VAR decisions. Is there no limit to their capacity for self-delusion?
     
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  4. dantes

    dantes Well-Known Member

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    The principle applies, but the magnitude of the effect is not comparable because the camera is not on top of his head and he is not 200ft tall. For example, this building is tall, it's sides are slanted. Fine. Firmino is short, the same height as the doorways at the base of the building, which are not slanted.

    [​IMG]
     
  5. moron

    moron i am legend Member

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    MOTD2 - going into the two refs we love to hate/doubt
     
  6. Atlas

    Atlas Well-Known Member

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    Initially I wasn't against this VAR thing, you have various bits of technology helping refs make decisions.
    Did the guy dive?
    Should it have been a pen?

    The clear and obvious thing is the new strong and stable.
    Situations are being manipulated after the fact, decisions that should be easy to make are taking forever and ruining the game.

    The rules help dictate the decisions for the ref.
    In fairness to Atkinson he could have redrawn the line based on when the ball left Manes foot, you can't see that in the clips but it's still his armpit that's offside and so still the wrong decision.

    Today's decisions were mental, that was a pen on richarlson from Aurier plus they took forever.

    This'll slowly turn into a joke unless the powers that be sit down and thrash out things over the next few matches.
     
  7. Rosco

    Rosco Worse than Brendan Honorary Member

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    I've said it many times, but the game would be better if the offside rule didn't exist.
     
  8. Stevesquash

    Stevesquash SCM Follower Member

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    There's so much wrong with VAR that is blatant and has been identified over and over, but why do we rely on an image from a camera that's not in line? In tennis you get virtual reality reply of the ball bouncing. Why don't we get vr of the players positions that we can zoom to the side of, as the ball is struck? Just another completely ridiculous aspect of VAR...
     
  9. Dreambeliever

    Dreambeliever Looking on the brightside Member

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    It would be shite. Defences would sit even deeper.
     
  10. Atlas

    Atlas Well-Known Member

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    Yes!
    We should also have rush and spider goalies. (Or whatever your regional/generational equivalent is)
     
  11. Frogfish

    Frogfish Gone to Redcafe Member

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    You are missing the point mate. Look at the distortion even in that shot and yes even the doorways are slanted (and if you cropped the photo you could see it clearly) ... from a normal standing perspective and shot face on. The height of the subject isn't the main issue .. it's the camera sensor's position relative to the subject (angle and height).

    Look back again at the shot I posted of the incident, the camera is in the stands (and the shot cropped of course) and the top half of their bodies are clearly larger and not in proportion to their legs, that's perspective distortion and even in that shot it's obvious.

    BTW even a small degree of perspective distortion makes a huge difference, my Tilt lens corrects up to 10 degrees but usually only 4-6 degrees are necessary to correct a building such as the one you've shown. Though that again will depend on your perspective relative to the subject.

    Anyway I'm not going to debate this with you because it's pointless. Perspective distortion is a known & very obvious photographic phenomena that we go to great lengths to try to correct (either in camera - via a tilt/shift lens, or using distortion controls in post processing - such as with PS, LR or I use ON1 and Luminar) and if you refuse to accept the science what more can I say :D
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2019
    dantes likes this.
  12. Frogfish

    Frogfish Gone to Redcafe Member

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    Clearly Kammy is making a fool of himself here. Rotate that picture until we are looking at Firmino square on (level with him) from the goal-line and I'm now of the opinion that line will be at 90 degrees.
    However as I said earlier that line isn't the issue - it's the horizontal (the one we saw Atkinson manipulate twice).
     
  13. Hyena

    Hyena Well-Known Member

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    I did not watch the video but I think the vertical line is a distraction.

    The point is where he draws the horizontal.

    The horizontal should be drawn where the vertical would have "hit" the ground , if it were a plumb line falling from firmino's armpit. If he was facing the camera straight on the would be the level of his feet.

    Since his torso is tilted, his armpit is further from the camera than his feet. In this case you can see the vertical line has been drawn way too long , past hours get when it should be slightly shorter. Shortening the vertical line by just millimeters places him clearly onside.
     
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  14. dantes

    dantes Well-Known Member

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    That's not possible. The line goes from his right armpit and hits the floor towards the outside of his left knee.
     
  15. momoWASboss

    momoWASboss Well-Known Member

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    From the guardians 10 things from the weekend games. It looks like EVERYONE is pissed off with VAR.

    Article:
    VAR providing more questions than answers
    Liverpool’s win over Aston Villa on Saturday was achieved despite more VAR-related controversy. Afterwards Dean Smith said he was pleased that he and the other 19 Premier League managers will meet authorities this week to discuss changes to VAR. “They are talking to the right people,” Smith said. “I was at a meeting last Thursday and every manager is going to another meeting this Thursday. Then the CEOs and the Premier League will get together and decide where they’re taking it. You can’t scrap it now, there are 28 countries using it. We all wanted it to find the right decisions but there was always going to be teething problems. We need to find a happy medium. I feel they’re taking a little bit of authority away from the referee. If he thinks it’s a goal and VAR are telling him there’s something [to disallow it] other than a factual reason, I’d like him to go over and have a look himself.”

     
  16. My_Blood_Bleeds_Red

    My_Blood_Bleeds_Red Very Active Member

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    VAR IS NOT THE PROBLEM.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Them lot are the PROBLEM.

    In other words, nothing's really changed. You'd think VAR would have helped improve the refereeing. Instead, VAR has merely given referees and linesmen, especially the inept, incompetent and hapless ones to have more power to do whatever they want

    [​IMG]
     
  17. The Nomad

    The Nomad Well-Known Member

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    It's quite simple to improve the usage of VAR.

    Invest in the technology to have more cameras and better resolutions

    Have a time limit of 60 seconds to find something to over turn a decision otherwise stick with the on field decision. None of this take 3 minutes to draw some lines to make the narrative fit.

    Involve the referee to have a look before making a final decision under a 'hood review's NFL style.

    Also inform the crowd exactly what they are looking for. I.e. potential handball on defence.

    All simple things.
     
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  18. Modo

    Modo A contentious scando Member

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    Exactly, if you want it to work, it will work.
    But it's so clear that the refs want it gone. So they're using it the worst possible way.
     
  19. Dave G

    Dave G Very Active Member

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    Linesmen shouldn't flag at all unless there is clear and obvious daylight for offside. Then, if the player scores, VAR checks the piece of his body that scored ( head , which foot etc ) to see if that actual bit was offside. If it wasn't tough, the goal is given as the part of the player scoring was onside.
     
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  20. Frogfish

    Frogfish Gone to Redcafe Member

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    Honestly mate .. are you a member of Flat Earth too? What is it 28 countries using it ? The FA will continue to follow everyone else because simply it's pretty much the only way forward. It will be refined, rules will change, officials will become better at using it and eventually it will work well. However if there's one certainty it's that it will never be retracted.
     

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