Has the Team Improved?

[Frogfish]

I'm not losing my mind but I think that we are weaker at the moment despite all the incomings, and have quite a bit of work to do.

Oh that's not a nonsensical take at all, whilst I'm not sure I completely agree with you, I agree it's a very valid concern, we need a couple more signings at least.

Has the team improved from last season? I think the main concerns are regarding formations and integration, not the playing staff per se.

We may have lost Nunez, Diaz, Jota (RIP), TAA, Kelleher, Quansah and Doak but that should be more than covered by Wirtz, Ekitike, Kerkez, Frimpong & Leoni. I strongly believe that Guehi will join before the end of the window too. I'm beginning to have my doubts about Isak joining this window (and no-one will come in if we don't secure him) but believe it'll still happen if Newcastle can get two forwards in (Wissa +1).

Looking at the different areas of the team separately : Attack, Midfield, Defence and FBs.

Attack : the wings are for the most part the same (as Diaz had been moved mainly to the centre for the second half of the season) and Ekitike looks like he'll more than cover Nunez, Diaz and Jota in that space (but we lack depth without Isak) and Wirtz can be seen as ½ forward + ½ midfield. Rio can certainly play a bit part and take minutes from Gakpo over there and it's likely Danns can too in cup matches at the very least.

Midfield : Clearly stronger. How they lineup and integrate is key to our season. However Wirtz (and Nyoni now looking bigger/stronger) is a massive addition and he'll be in the Team of the Season by the end of it.

Defence : Down a CB but if Guehi signs, as I strongly believe he will, then we're stronger with better depth (esp. with Jomez back and Leoni who'll get games and subs).

Keepers : a slight improvement with Marma for Kelleher.

FBs : for me it's better all round. Kerkez is undoubtedly a major improvement on last season's Robbo and we still have Robbo and/or Tsimi as backups. On the right Frimpong+Bradley is better than TAA+Bradley for me. Versatile, fast and better defensively.

There may be concerns that Mo. and Virgil will drop off. I highly doubt it for Virgil, however I can't see Mo. scoring as many as last season - though maybe assisting more.

If we get Guehi and Isak we'll run away with this league again.
If we only get Guehi then it will be a struggle (short a CF) but I believe we can do it.
If we get none of them then Arsenal's improvement could be decisive.

I still think we'll get two more in.

 

[Farkmaster]

Our two most important players are a year older, so they are worse. They should be doing far fewer minutes, and it's afcon, so it's an even shorter season of Salah actually having form that justifies his tax on the team.

Our entire defence as a unit is worse due to inexperience playing as a unit and could easily be worse individually, but the jury is out . Kerkez looks very raw and a bit overawed. Frimpong looks exciting but unbelievably light weight, and I'm not shocked he's got a hamstring injury. There's definitely more upside, but we are talking about the here and now.

We lost two players who generally played when fit in attack. I think ekitike is definitely an improvement on Nunez for our system, and perhaps on Diaz playing as a 9, but we will miss the bite Diaz had, and his use as an outball that could dribble.

You pair that with wirtz just behind over szoboslai, and see a new group of players have no idea how to press as a unit. It's an attack that is far less destructive off the ball in favor of silk and technique.

That could work if we have the ball, but we will get bullied. We are smaller and lighter. Wirtz' technique is undeniable. So was thiagos, and he was a luxury. We really are reliant on wirtz making an impact quickly for the risks we are taking to be worth it in the short term. That's a big big unknown. That's in terms of winning the league by the way, not what we will do in future.

We are short two forwards. We are very short in CB. I thought we needed a midfielder to improve the balance of the team, and we bought one that is almost a forward. The balance of the team looks worse at the moment, but we just can't know at this point whether it'll come together. What we do know is we don't even have all the pieces, to know how they'll come together.

Even if we get them now, I think it'll be a couple months before they are integrated. That's a long time to be short.

 

[Full Stop]

as Diaz had been moved mainly to the centre for the second half of the season

When Slot arrived he immediately started preferring his Dutch compatriot Gakpo. That meant that Diaz lost his place. And that happened even though Diaz had a tremendous start of the season having gone on a great scoring run in the first few games. So that it is not that Diaz had been moved mainly to the centre. It is the case that Diaz lost his place and became a secondary figure. Slot would prefer Gakpo and Diaz was to compete with Jota, Nunez and whoever else wherever else. He lost his place and space and respect. That is why Diaz left the club. He was greatly displeased throughout all of the last season because of how Slot treated him.

Ekitike looks like he'll more than cover Nunez, Diaz and Jota in that space

Nunez, Diaz and Jota. There is quite a whole lot of both MINUTES there but also GOALS. It is unrealistic to expect Ekitike to "more than cover" for that space. Unless Ekitike goes on to have a Haaland like impact which is very, very unrealistic.

 

[StevieM]

Yes and no.

I think in the short term we’re a less cohesive and focused unit as at the start of last season and resemble more the team that had the performance drop offs towards the back end of last season.

I also think the squad as is, with the addition of another top quality forward will be better that last season’s title winning team

Adding another CB really rams that home.

I think we don’t see it until later in the season though.

 

[darkstarexodus]

Our best possible 11-13 players has certainly improved. But our depth has unquestionably decreased.

So it will depend on fitness and injuries as to whether we are better this year or not. Get lucky and we could lay a lot of teams to waste. A couple critical injuries and we're poised to really struggle.

 

[Modo]

Its too early to tell.
I can't say that Frimpong is an upgrade on Trent right now.
Kerkez is better than old Robbo, but is he better than young Robbo?

Ekitike looks good.

We haven't replaced Diaz. I don't see Wirtz as his replacement.

 

[MomoWASright]

Frimpong is ABSOLUTELY an upgrade on Trent.

I think we are still the team to beat and will win it at ease. As I said in the finance thread, City will hit a brick wall come January time. Their keeper looks shit, their best defenders are a year older too. They looked shaky at the back and were got at like we were against Bournemouth. The only difference is Bournemouth are a lot better than Wolves.

Marmaduke is better or equal to our version of Kevin.

Frimpong is better than lazy arsed fucking snake cunt.

Kerkez is better then last seasons Robbo & Tsimikas. We’ve upgraded, I hope, Quansah with the scouse lad with a fake Italian passport.

Gravy will be better with a year of full action under his belt, Macca one of the best in the world, Nyoni a year more experienced and who knows what we will get with Badger. Wirtz is a big upgrade on The Boy and I’m a massive fan of The Boy.

Chiesa can be our Jota, just not a starter and Ekitike is a massive improvement on the fish loving mong. There’s more pressure on Gakpo to stay fit as we integrate Rio into the first team. Salah will continue to be indulged and will play an excessive amount of games. That’s probably our biggest weakness especially with AFCON. I can see us pushing Frimpong there and having Bradley/Gomez as right back for a good few weeks.

Adding anyone else would be massive for us, but the core XI is stronger with great players on the fringes on that side with some massive talents in reserve.

 

[Squiggles]

Right now, we’re worse than last season. As Fark has said, there are still pieces missing. There are doubts about how Wirtz will fit in and adapt, especially without an out-and-out defensive midfielder to close the gaps. Half of the defence is brand new, and we’ve lost Diaz’s work rate, versatility and relentless running. On top of that, the squad is still living with the impact of Jota’s death. Grief doesn’t follow a straight line and it will resurface at different times, affecting individuals and the team in ways nobody can fully predict.

To be clear, this isn’t a criticism of the signings. We’ve strengthened in the right areas, but it will take time to see how everything comes together and for the squad to knit as a unit.

I am genuinely excited about the new arrivals, but I’m also nervous about our defensive cover and options. The attack might be able to muddle through until January, but we all remember what a centre-back crisis looks like, and I’ve no desire to live through that again. Hopefully, Leoni is ready to step up, and both Bradley and Gomez can find fitness, but for me, that feels like too much to pin on hope alone. If we manage to land Guehi and Isa,k then, on paper, we’re undoubtedly stronger than we were. Those two signings would change the picture completely.

City and Arsenal are far from flawless, but both are capable of putting daylight between us while we’re still finding our feet. City, in particular, after a poor campaign last year, will be re-energised and desperate to reassert themselves. The season is always a long grind, yet whichever of the three sides settles their (best) new signings quickest and has the fewest flops, will have a solid advantage going into Christmas.

 

[Hansern]

We have improved the team but not the squad yet. Its important that we get Guehi and 1-2 more attackers over the line. If we do that then we have improved the squad as well.

 

[StevieM]

We absolutely need at least be more forward to share the load in the centre and on the left, also depending on whether Ekitike can fill in on the left - I presume he can, but haven’t seen him there yet.

Guehi would be a great addition and bulk up those defensive options.

I do think we need an Endo replacement, but it’s not critical.

 

[Markeh]

i don’t think you can choose anything other than not being convinced right now. we’ve only seen 1 game so we only have the tiniest sense of who these players are, if they’ll gel and if slot can put it all together.

if we’re talking about ‘on paper’ / winning the transfer window then sure add guehi and isak then we probably are.

we’re building for the future right now and having a full on squad refresh. the question is does it look like we’re on track to be competitive in 2 years time when we start shedding the biggest names? i think yes

short term though this side will take time to come together, squad depth is weaker right now and we seem intent on cutting even more. good news is we might finally have a proper 9 and that’s huge.

 

[bluebell]

We may not get a FWD, though I hear Rodrygo is begging to come to us. Cheesy staying it seems and so I am not worried about the attack, its at the back. Endo is staying and we are not getting to get a MF addition for CDM.

If Guehi and Isak are out of price range and there is no time extra additions, I have to say I could live with it. We have another window in 3 months if we need at address anything, there's money left over to do it
For me its now about team cohesion, formation, tactics and patterns of play. How do we protect our lead? At 2-0 up do we need players defending so high up the pitch?
Grav is back so I expect a more solid back line. Robbo, needs to understand he isn't playing Rugby. He is no longer a flying fullback, become a traditional LB, use your fucking brains

 

[MomoWASright]

We may not get a FWD, though I hear Rodrygo is begging to come to us. Cheesy staying it seems and so I am not worried about the attack, its at the back. Endo is staying and we are not getting to get a MF addition for CDM.

If Guehi and Isak are out of price range and there is no time extra additions, I have to say I could live with it. We have another window in 3 months if we need at address anything, there's money left over to do it
For me its now about team cohesion, formation, tactics and patterns of play. How do we protect our lead? At 2-0 up do we need players defending so high up the pitch?
Grav is back so I expect a more solid back line. Robbo, needs to understand he isn't playing Rugby. He is no longer a flying fullback, become a traditional LB, use your fucking brains

Hang on!!!!! This sound like I (and StevieM and the other top reds) have changed your way of thinking.

 

[refugee]

I think we have improved the starting XI on paper, on an individual basis. Ekitike is better than Nunez, Wirtz is an upgrade attacking wise (and he puts in a lot of work, so I don't think defensive will suffer) over who he replaces (I think it will likely be Slobbers, but there will be more rotation so not always). The 2 fullback additions are excellent players, whether they will turn out to be an upgrade will just depend on how they adapt to the new club and players around them, but both positions needed addressed and we did that, so I have to be optimistic.

Isake is top drawer, so if that was to happen then it's even more of an upgrade. Guehi would also be a solid addition and give us a lot of options.

But the system requires tweaking. and it's unclear if we have the balance right. Especially when Gravy isn't playing, as he helps the defence a lot. Time will tell on this, but Slot has earned a lot of trust.

 

[keniget]

I am more inclined to agree with Fark.

The balance of the team / squad is not quite right. I was worried how it would all come together when the Wirtz signing was mooted (because I am a miserable, pessimistic bastard) and right now it's still not clear. Other changes have thrown the balance off a little bit more as well.

We've improved certain areas on paper but still too early to say whether this improvements will materialise on the pitch - hopefully yes. Ekitike at least looks like a definite concrete improvement.

A Diaz replacement and a CB is a must. I'd like to see another midfielder come in but that seems unlikely.

 

[LarryHagman]

It'll be interesting to re-visit this after 10 or so games. Either side of the argument could be right but, 1 game is quite a small sample to make a judgement on.

 

[peterhague]

The first team is stronger, the bench is weaker.

Kerkez has had a bad start but over the season I'd still expect him to be better than Robbo from last year.

I don't think Frimpong is as good a player as Trent but Trent couldn't be arsed last season so that's probably still an upgrade.

Wirtz and Ekitike are huge upgrades.

If Salah and VVD are worse due to age then Grav will probably be better due to maturity, maybe even Gakpo too.

 

[Glen C]

Not yet its not.

Kerkez looked a mess, van dijk and salah are a year older, we're a CB short and have lost diaz.

Ekitike looks good. Im sure wirtz will come good but not happened yet.

Getting isak and a first choice CB are vital if we want to retain our title. Right now i can't see us doing that at all. Arsenal are definitely a lot stronger and man city are looking good..

 

[Modo]

How our forward line has evolved:

21/22: Firmino, Mané, Salah, Minamino, Jota, Díaz, Origi

22/23: Firmino, Salah, Gakpo, Jota, Díaz, Núñez, Carvalho

23/24: Díaz, Núñez, Salah, Gakpo, Jota

24/25: Díaz, Núñez, Salah, Chiesa, Gakpo, Jota

25/26: Salah, Chiesa, Gakpo, Ekitike, Wirtz, Ngumoha

At our best, we had Salah, Firmino, Mane starting with Jota, Diaz, Origi and Minamino backing them up. Sure, Diaz joined mid season, because Sadio was leaving

It's pretty obvious that we're missing another striker and the big question mark is, "will Chiesa take on the Jota role?"
In that case we're good.

 

[peterhague]

Also I think it's a bit funny how we're the only top team who aren't allowed a bit of silk in the AM position. City dominated the league for years playing midgets like Bernardo Silva in CM. Arsenal have Odegaard and now Eze there. Yet apparently we've got to have a workhorse whose main attacking quality is charging defenders down.

I think Slot basically has the right idea. You win this league battering the lesser teams. City dominated for years like that, and Utd before them.

 

[Judge Jules]

We've gained in terms of individual ability but lost in terms of team cohesion, at least as long as it takes the new squad to bed in. This season was always going to be closer than last season anyway with other teams strengthening as well, and the sheer number of new signings we've made all at once will accentuate that.

The bookies still have us top of the betting though, and they don't make a habit of getting things wrong.

 

[jexykrodic]

We've gained in terms of individual ability but lost in terms of team cohesion, at least as long as it takes the new squad to bed in. This season was always going to be closer than last season anyway with other teams strengthening as well, and the sheer number of new signings we've made all at once will accentuate that.

The bookies still have us top of the betting though, and they don't make a habit of getting things wrong.

Good post. I'd add that injuries will play a big part for us and our rivals. The team that can keep it's players in good physical condition (aiding team cohesion) will have the strongest chance of consistent wins.

 

[Brizzle]

I think our balance could look much better when we see Grav & Macca at DM. The problem is kind of how Szobo fits in because he simply isn't a guy for that role, and that is pivotal to how the full backs operate, who in turn are pivotal to how the front three operate.

Szobo IMO should be back up to Wirtz and we should have another v good option at DM because Jones is inconsistent there. Sort that out and I think things fall into place.

We are 100% going to sww Virgil start to show signs of age this season, in pace & decision making. Salah has set a high bar that at some point just can't last and we need Gakpo & Ekitekkers to operate at levels higher than we had previously from those two positions.

I think we are making improvements in the right areas but it needs to bed in, and we need to then use the players in the right way.

 

[Frogfish]

Is the team better ? Yes it is. It may not be playing like it yet - of course, integration takes time. But the players are clearly an upgrade (bar Diaz who hasn't be replaced) but a change in tactics may nullify that loss with Wirtz and Ekitike linking left.

Let's also get this 'year older' bit clear. They didn't age 12 months over the Summer. By the end of this season they will be but at present they are very much the players that finished last season.
I doubt we will see any drop off in Virgil - last week he played after 5 days of illness so one would expect some lack of mental/physical acuity.
Mo. is also not a serious doubt - his pace had already dropped off last season and it didn't affect his productivity, I don't see a further decline that would affect his productivity. And we all know of his incredible physical conditioning.

We are going to score a LOT of goals as it is, even without Isak, but he'd give us serious depth and enable a challenge on multiple fronts but as far as retaining our title - goals won't be the issue. And we already have a first choice CB pairing - they are the ones that won the title last season. See Isak for Guehi's potential impact, for depth and the future.

For Kerkez I'm not worried at all, some people here talking about young, inexperienced etc. - he was in the PL Team of the Season last year, you don't suddenly lose that and become an average player. He's better than last season's Robbo already (again the one that won the PL) and is playing next to Virgil who will get him in line. The fact he has Virgil & Robbo to support him means he'll adjust quickly.

As for Frimpong - that insane pace will already prevent goals that TAA couldn't, simply by being able to get a body in front of their winger and force them to play back/inside. I don't see a massive issue with his size, he can tackle. With him and Bradley we are well covered at RB.
Frimpong has already shown he can be a winger too so Salah cover for AFCON is built in (or we could play 4 MFs). Luckily for the time Mo. is away there is only one tough match and if I remember correctly we won every match Mo. was away last time?

As it stands I don't see much between ourselves, Arsenal and City. If it stays like this the matches between those three could prove decisive, if we get Isak and Guehi (either now or in January) then we should win it going away.

Integration will come quickly, it doesn't need a season, it doesn't need 5 / 6 months, we just need to stay within touching distance until January and we can win this with/without Isak/Guehi but to challenge for PL+CL we need both.

 

[Frogfish]

We've gained in terms of individual ability but lost in terms of team cohesion, at least as long as it takes the new squad to bed in. This season was always going to be closer than last season anyway with other teams strengthening as well, and the sheer number of new signings we've made all at once will accentuate that.

The bookies still have us top of the betting though, and they don't make a habit of getting things wrong.

Just a note on the odds - of course the amount of money going on a horse affects it's price and we have been heavy favourites (attracting the early money) for a while. However with many bookies Liverpool and Arsenal are now virtually inseparable, with City a bit behind and Chelsea distant.

 

[bluebell]

Hang on!!!!! This sound like I (and StevieM and the other top reds) have changed your way of thinking.

I moaned about signings when we were buying 1 player. Including the GK we purchased 6 players, apart from Leoni all are first team. That requires alot of work. I will moan when I see it worth moaning. If we get Isak, Guehi and Rodrygo, I am not going to complain but I don't underestimate the work required to intergrade 9 new players. At this moment of time they've earned my trust to buy or sell who they want

 

[Frogfish]

I moaned about signings when we were buying 1 player. Including the GK we purchased 6 players, apart from Leoni all are first team. That requires alot of work. I will moan when I see it worth moaning. If we get Isak, Guehi and Rodrygo, I am not going to complain but I don't underestimate the work required to intergrade 9 new players. At this moment of time they've earned my trust to buy or sell who they want

Woo Hoo !!

 

[singlerider]

I think it's a quality/quantity issue.

Individually Ekitike looks (on first glance) to be better than Nunez or Jota or Diaz as the 9.

But is he better than Nunez and Jota and Diaz? That's a lot to ask... here's hoping for no injuries.

Wirtz should be more productive than Szobo, and if Szobo falls back into the 8 and rotates with Macca then hopefully that means they're both less gassed come the end of the season.

Rio looks an exciting talent, but he's not better than Diaz, so LW looks a little light. Grav is key for us, and we still don't have an effective like-for-like replacement. Leoni is hopefully better than OnlyQuans, and we'll see what the deal is with the fullbacks.

Guehi would deffo be nice, but the biggest risk in terms of backup looks to be CF and LW.

Are we better? As a team/squad? I think it's a marginal no.

The players we've signed excite me. The ones we haven't make me nervous

 

[Farkmaster]

Also I think it's a bit funny how we're the only top team who aren't allowed a bit of silk in the AM position. City dominated the league for years playing midgets like Bernardo Silva in CM. Arsenal have Odegaard and now Eze there. Yet apparently we've got to have a workhorse whose main attacking quality is charging defenders down.

I think Slot basically has the right idea. You win this league battering the lesser teams. City dominated for years like that, and Utd before them.

I'm a broken record here, but the problem is that Salah doesn't contribute to defense other than in a handful of games. That's the luxury we are already affording and it's not without consequence already. Throw in the silk and you lose the guy who was running himself into the ground plugging gaps precisely because of salah. It's just too much luxury unless we are playing brilliant stuff. It also puts a massive amount of pressure on our backline individually and collectively, not the best way for them to all find their feet.

You also lose the ball more centrally as you try to play through the am, further taxing us on the counter, when we are imbalanced. It's just a much much riskier proposition. Our attack needs to really be feared for it to pay off and wirtz needs to match the hype.

 

[keniget]

The players we've signed excite me. The ones we haven't make me nervous

Think that summarises it quite nicely.