Cutting the Rope

[Squiggles]

What's your thoughts on the current injury prone nature of our squad? Is it sustainable? Has there been a scouting failure in identifying so many players unable to meet the demands of Klopps football? Just bad luck? What action needs be taken to increase the resilience of the squad in the short and long term?

For me, Shaqiri, Chamberlain, Matip, and Keita are now locked in a Hunger Games style battle to prove their fitness and their value to this group. They are needed now more than ever and if they cannot do so this season then it's time to be ruthless and start a rebuild without them.

We have Milner aging, Wijnaldum likely to depart, Henderson pumped full of painkillers to get through game, etc, and doubts over how often Thiago will actually get on the pitch.

There's no concerns with Edwards and Klopps squad building and I'm sure they'll get it right, but I am fearful Klopps loyalty and bond with his players might ensure we fail to act when I'm adamant we need to.

 

[Dreambeliever]

He failed to rebuild at Dortmund.
Hopefully he doesn’t go down the same route here.

 

[Squiggles]

He failed to rebuild at Dortmund.
Hopefully he doesn’t go down the same route here.

They were constantly rebuilding to some degree because Bayern always stole their players. To his credit that's something he put right here.

 

[Dreambeliever]

They were constantly rebuilding to some degree because Bayern always stole their players. To his credit that's something he put right here.

That’s true. But after winning two titles his team were plagued with injuries.

Hopefully after our second league title it won’t be same here.

We need fresh blood just to keep us motivated to keep winning if nothing else.

 

[Modo]

That’s true. But after winning two titles his team were plagued with injuries.

Hopefully after our second league title it won’t be same here.

We need fresh blood just to keep us motivated to keep winning if nothing else.

The problem we're currently facing is that our most prominent players are all basically the same age.

 

[Woland]

Jota, Jones, TAA, Gomez, Kelleher... They're all young enough and good enough to base the next gen around. It's just how the hell do you replace Salah or Mane? Mind you we've had this every few years forever, from Suarez to Torres to Owen to Fowler to Rush to Dalglish to Keegan, and they've always managed it.

 

[Modo]

Jota, Jones, TAA, Gomez, Kelleher... They're all young enough and good enough to base the next gen around. It's just how the hell do you replace Salah or Mane? Mind you we've had this every few years forever, from Suarez to Torres to Owen to Fowler to Rush to Dalglish to Keegan, and they've always managed it.

We had a bit of a gap between Owen and Torres.
Jota might be able to replace one of them. But yeah, we have a few on the way. Although, I think we need a few more in midfield and attack.

 

[Mamma Mia]

Jota, Jones, TAA, Gomez, Kelleher... They're all young enough and good enough to base the next gen around. It's just how the hell do you replace Salah or Mane? Mind you we've had this every few years forever, from Suarez to Torres to Owen to Fowler to Rush to Dalglish to Keegan, and they've always managed it.

.

 

[rubans]

Klopp and the recruitment team have shown they are capable of turn over and when required adding established players key positions.

Gk - Kelleher - not saying a replacement but showing signs as an apt deputy
CB - Jones - seems to have it ability so deserves his chance
MF - Jones, 11 starts already in a varied and fab set of 7 established midfielders
CF - Jota - surprise signing and thought we over paid by 13 million but what do I know. Sensational forward with ability to play in 4 positions

The injuries aren’t ideal but the extended run time for the talented youngsters will be invaluable which is a flip side and Klopp has let them grow and make mistakes but not thrown any of them under the bus.
Not worried about Dortmund end, he would have learnt a huge amount from it and he’s been backed well this season when required.

 

[Dreambeliever]

Our young players are so lucky to have Milner, Henderson, Gini, Salah, Mane, Firmino, VVD to learn from

 

[moron]

Klopp and the recruitment team have shown they are capable of turn over and when required adding established players key positions.

Gk - Kelleher - not saying a replacement but showing signs as an apt deputy
CB - Jones - seems to have it ability so deserves his chance
MF - Jones, 11 starts already in a varied and fab set of 7 established midfielders
CF - Jota - surprise signing and thought we over paid by 13 million but what do I know. Sensational forward with ability to play in 4 positions

The injuries aren’t ideal but the extended run time for the talented youngsters will be invaluable which is a flip side and Klopp has let them grow and make mistakes but not thrown any of them under the bus.
Not worried about Dortmund end, he would have learnt a huge amount from it and he’s been backed well this season when required.

At Dortmund he was fucked because he was never able to hold onto his best players. Here he is able to hold onto them, with support from our owners who want to grow our brand and retain our top players. I think the way we have just slotted in a youngster when needed with experienced players has accelerated their learning.

 

[Stevesquash]

Our young players are so lucky to have Milner, Henderson, Gini, Salah, Mane, Firmino, VVD to learn from

This is the benefit of having players of the right character. Just love our squad. Not one player I don't like.

 

[Modo]

Our young players are so lucky to have Milner, Henderson, Gini, Salah, Mane, Firmino, VVD to learn from

That's how Man U managed to dominate for such a long time.

 

[Dreambeliever]

This is the benefit of having players of the right character. Just love our squad. Not one player I don't like.

Absolutely. Rare to not have any dickheads

 

[Dreambeliever]

That's how Man U managed to dominate for such a long time.

Thank fuck Ferguson fucked off. 20 in sight.

 

[localny]

We had a bit of a gap between Owen and Torres.
Jota might be able to replace one of them. But yeah, we have a few on the way. Although, I think we need a few more in midfield and attack.

on the plus side, Big Pete Crouch filled that gap

 

[Hansern]

He failed to rebuild at Dortmund.
Hopefully he doesn’t go down the same route here.

He lost his best players, and his DoF failed with a lot of signings towards the end.
You can see that it wont happen here.

 

[gkmacca]

People surely don't believe that the injuries are entirely unrelated to the exceptional intensity of the way the team plays? The odd player has just been unfortunate, physically, but otherwise there's a pattern that's connected to the nature of the play. That's the downside of what a great style of play we have. The question needs reversing. The surprising thing isn't that so many players break down, the surprising thing is so many remain fit.

 

[Stevesquash]

But on the whole the ones that break down don't do the bulk of the work.

Van dijk, thiago because of awful challenges. Milner is how old, and doesn't often get injured. Shaq, keita have barely played and still get injured. Gomez got injured standing still and whilst centre back is a tough physical position, it's not like he's running up and down all match.

I sort of agree we should get injuries, particularly as klopp doesn't rotate much, but actually it's the players who play most mins and rarely get rotated that are in the demanding positions, and rarely get injured

Robbo, trent, Salah, Mane, Firmino, Gini, hendo (less so)

The sick notes don't tend to get injured through overwork...

 

[Frogfish]

That’s true. But after winning two titles his team were plagued with injuries.

Hopefully after our second league title it won’t be same here.

We need fresh blood just to keep us motivated to keep winning if nothing else.

That was only for half a season ... and once most of his outrageous list of injury hit players (just as we've had the misfortune to have been suffered) were fit again Dortmund soared up the league.

All powerful teams need to strengthen with top talent (young or established), Bayern for example are very very good at doing just that.
However I don't think we need a major overhaul of the squad over the next 2 seasons. We just need to bring in a couple of players per season that will challenge the established players now and then eventually replace them : Jones, Jota, Kelleher and maybe Rhys Williams are a very good start.

I'm still hoping Gini will re-sign because we are so close to a perfect team/squad. Origi, Adrian & Millie (maybe one last season in 2021/22 as he's fit enough) and possibly Shaq., as he's 29 now, will be the next few to depart.

I can't see Naby Keïta going anywhere, he's 25 and has his best (hopefully in fitness as well as on the pitch) ahead of him. He had an excellent game against Palace yesterday just to demonstrate his value to the squad. Ditto Ox. (27) who's worth his place in the squad.

In fact the only one who has looked out of place so far is Tsimikas, not as an emergency backup but as a starter, I wish we had take up Jamal Lewis' offer as his ceiling looks far far higher. Luckily Robbo is 26 and hopefully has another 4-5 years at least ahead of him (more if he can maintain Milner's standard of fitness as he ages).

 

[Frogfish]

The problem we're currently facing is that our most prominent players are all basically the same age.

Myth. The core of our team have at least 3-4 or more years ahead of them as starters :

Alisson, VvD (because Keepers and CBs can go on for much longer than say forwards), TAA, Robbo, Jones, Fabinho (27 and can move back to CB), Keita, Jota and even Mo and Mane should have at 3 years left up top. Gradual integration of new players a la Bayern should keep us up around the top and winning trophies.

It's going to be 5 years before the majority of this team has gone.

 

[Frogfish]

Our young players are so lucky to have Milner, Henderson, Gini, Salah, Mane, Firmino, VVD to learn from

Yep. All world class and leaders.

 

[Frogfish]

People surely don't believe that the injuries are entirely unrelated to the exceptional intensity of the way the team plays? The odd player has just been unfortunate, physically, but otherwise there's a pattern that's connected to the nature of the play. That's the downside of what a great style of play we have. The question needs reversing. The surprising thing isn't that so many players break down, the surprising thing is so many remain fit.

Uh-oh I feel a Blue Fume Conspiracy Theory coming on.

 

[Modo]

Myth. The core of our team have at least 3-4 or more years ahead of them as starters :

Alisson, VvD (because Keepers and CBs can go on for much longer than say forwards), TAA, Robbo, Jones, Fabinho (27 and can move back to CB), Keita, Jota and even Mo and Mane should have at 3 years left up top. Gradual integration of new players a la Bayern should keep us up around the top and winning trophies.

It's going to be 5 years before the majority of this team has gone.

Yeah I guess it isn't that bad anymore with Jota signing in the summer. He might be part of the next front three.
In midfield we have a 19 year old in Jones. Keita hasn't been great, Ox will surely be sold and Wijnaldum won't stick around after summer.
I think a player around 22-24 years old would help ease the transition there.
Could do with another wing forward in the same age bracket, Elliott being a little too young.
A backup to Firmino should be considered as well. Divock will be sold.

Ok, the situation isn't critical yet.

 

[MaBigTip]

Yeah I guess it isn't that bad anymore with Jota signing in the summer. He might be part of the next front three.
In midfield we have a 19 year old in Jones. Keita hasn't been great, Ox will surely be sold and Wijnaldum won't stick around after summer.
I think a player around 22-24 years old would help ease the transition from there.
Could do with another wing forward in the same age bracket, Elliott being a little too young.
A backup to Firmino should considered as well. Divock will be sold.

Ok, the situation isn't critical yet.

After bringing through Trent and Curtis you want to block Elliot's path when he looks the most audaciously talented youngster we've had since Raheem and Sterling? I would not invest money in a specialized right sided attacker rn.

 

[Modo]

After bringing through Trent and Curtis you want to block Elliot's path when he looks the most audaciously talented youngster we've had since Raheem and Sterling? I would not invest money in a specialized right sided attacker rn.

I'm not sure if he's quick enough. More suited as an AM imo.

 

[Fabio]

I'm not sure if he's quick enough. More suited as an AM imo.

I don't think pace is the be all end all for our wing play. It helps, but it's not a necessity. But i kind of agree with you. I think Elliot, whilst a huge talent, might not walk in to our side if salah/mane goes. He needs to continually develop his end product for consistency.

I wouldn't be opposed to a 23/24 year old stop gap player. If Elliot can oust him, then jobs a goodun

 

[Squiggles]

People surely don't believe that the injuries are entirely unrelated to the exceptional intensity of the way the team plays? The odd player has just been unfortunate, physically, but otherwise there's a pattern that's connected to the nature of the play. That's the downside of what a great style of play we have. The question needs reversing. The surprising thing isn't that so many players break down, the surprising thing is so many remain fit.

Agreed, so then the question is why did we sign previous injury prone players who play less intense football than ourselves. I think most fans could have accurately predicted Chamberlain's LFC career to date, I recall the view from Schlake fans was that Matip was great when you can get him on the pitch, similar stories from Bayern fan regarding Thiago. Can't recall Naby's prior injury record TBH.

Do you think the recruitment team need to place greater emphasis on injury record than they have to date? How do we find players that have the ability but also the resilience to meet the demands of Klopps football?

I'm not suggesting we don't consider it. Of course we do and have failed at least 2 high profile players for medicals, but I do wonder if its something we need to evaluate going forward. As much as we can blame the 3 sub ruling and the grueling schedule, the club can also make increased steps to ensure the resilience of our squad and thus provide better value.

 

[gkmacca]

Agreed, so then the question is why did we sign previous injury prone players who play less intense football than ourselves. I think most fans could have accurately predicted Chamberlain's LFC career to date, I recall the view from Schlake fans was that Matip was great when you can get him on the pitch, similar stories from Bayern fan regarding Thiago. Can't recall Naby's prior injury record TBH.

Do you think the recruitment team need to place greater emphasis on injury record than they have to date? How do we find players that have the ability but also the resilience to meet the demands of Klopps football?

I'm not suggesting we don't consider it. Of course we do and have failed at least 2 high profile players for medicals, but I do wonder if its something we need to evaluate going forward. As much as we can blame the 3 sub ruling and the grueling schedule, the club can also make increased steps to ensure the resilience of our squad and thus provide better value.

Chamberlain, agreed - I think they could only have convinced themselves that he could be trained in a different way and his problems would be behind him. But the facts didn't really seem to encourage that hope.

With Matip, I think there's some mitigation - that was early on in Klopp's time, and he was just eager to bring in more quality, at the right price, with a player he knew very well, and Matip made sense in the context.

Naby's the one where I think the surprise has been shared by a large number of fans as well as the club - he really looked like this tough and dynamic midfield leader before he arrived. His injury record, now that I look at it, doesn't seem to have been that bad - a thigh strain in 2016 and 2018 and a hamstring strain in 2016, otherwise really just knocks, and missing only on average about ten days per injury before that last knock, just prior to us buying him, when he was out for 48 days. The contrast with his LFC record is pretty stark.

Apart from looking at their past records, I'm not sure how Edwards and Co improve at the gamble in future. Maybe someone with specialist knowledge can tell us if there's the technology to assess muscular and joint capacity for our kind of training and playing. If not, I guess we have to just hope they prove strong physical specimens under pressure.

 

[Atlas]

There was a gamble on Ox and possible Thiago.
On the other hand I think it's generally a normal set of injuries that occur during the season.
This season has been a freak season firstly with spazzy tackles on VVD and Thiago that's left them crocked.
Then there's the extra stupid demand on the players after the lengthy season last time.
There was the long break in between with the first lockdown but it meant finishing one season little pre season
A few weeks break and then a new season with limited ore season.

These factors have added to the likes of other players getting muscular injuries and problems.

Gomez is the one that really irks being away at Englands useless games with their useless training and staff and he gets injured.