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Brighton Away - Pre Match Thread

Discussion in 'The Football Forum' started by bluebell, Jan 8, 2019.

?

Who should partner VVD if Lovren is injured (and no Matip or Gomez available)?

  1. Fabs

    69.2%
  2. Milner

    3.8%
  3. Nathaniel Phillips

    7.7%
  4. Masterson

    13.5%
  5. Other

    5.8%
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  1. Kay Age El

    Kay Age El Well-Known Member

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    Our players are people right? People get influenced of what happens around them, right?

    So we haven't won the league since god knows when but we have been looking well awesome all year and even won games we didn't look odds on to win. Played poorly at times still managed to get the win. We are in the front seat with everything to lose at the moment.

    Then we lose a game away against the perhaps best team in the league, no harm done. Then we lose against a team we'd normally beat with our best players in the FA Cup fielding a weakened side. Kinda no harm done.

    However if we lose the next away to Brighton in what is a must game win for a title aspiring team, then things are suddenly not looking as rosy as they did say 10 days back. This has nothing do to with Virgil or Milner not being great leaders on the pitch, it's human nature and especially in a club that has grown very accustumed to NOT winning the league this game could become nervy.

    I see absolutely nothing wrong with this statement and even if we should go out and give them a heavy beating and all is back to beeing good this COULD potentially have been the start of a prologned dire run.

    Personally I think we have got the quality needed to overcome this hurdle come Saturday even with a decimated back-line but this is a potential banana-skin game and if you don't agree we'll simply have to disagree.
     
  2. Kay Age El

    Kay Age El Well-Known Member

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    Exactly what I thought, the hostility towards my point has probably got to do with an ongoing dispute on here, one I am not part of why I'll friendly advise froggy and everyone else to read my posts as such, without any hidden agendas. There are none.

    Look I just want us to win the Premier League again and the upcoming fixture has certainly got some potential to be a party pooper.
     
  3. Kay Age El

    Kay Age El Well-Known Member

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    Okay, fair enough, I guess this post of yours mislead me to believe just that;

    - You're taking a battering for this so I'll not add to it. No doubt the usual clique will agree with you though.
     
  4. Frogfish

    Frogfish Gone to Redcafe Member

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    That's a pretty clear statement mate. In the following half a dozen posts 3 had a go at you :( There is a clique on here that follows closely in each others footsteps and won't utter a word of disagreement with each other. Pretty much like all close mates I suppose. I wasn't inferring you were part of it though, just that you were echoing their view.

    Anyway ... Back to Brighton !
     
  5. tomasjj

    tomasjj Very Active Member

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    If Lovren doesn't recover, I reckon it will be Fabinho again.
    Not ideal, but from what I read, neither Gomez nor Matip will be ready.
     
  6. mark1975

    mark1975 Moderator Moderator

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    I'm not being despondent and moody. I love where we are at, I just never buy into this notion that it can last because you have to back it up. When you let players go and suffer injuries in key positions, you have to compound that with reinforcements. You don't let your only adequate cover for full back go and leave yourself with a player who's repeatedly proven he's one of the worst defenders in the league.

    I have NO problem with us rotating last night, but you do it the right way. Klopp not only changed the system - two lazy strikers playing as a flat front two with no movement/two wide players dropping to cover for two full backs (none of the four players were used to that, or to playing together). Moreno has repeatedly let us down in these sort of games, yet he gets a guaranteed start. What's the point? He should be gone at the end of the season, he's just slagged us off in the press, the lad should be out the door.

    As Macca said, you stick with the system, make minor alterations and mix experienced first teamers with youth in key areas. You partner them up. Whatevers, it didn't work, we were disjointed, players who are on the fringes proved why they shouldn't have a future here (Mignolet, Moreno, Sturridge) and we're now out another competition. I don't see any positivity to be gained from reducing our chances of silverware. It smacks of putting all of our eggs in one basket.

    Like I said, are you going to post if we finish 2nd or 3rd about how great a season it's been? Finishing with no silverware and patting ourselves on the back for putting up a title challenge is great and all but what then? Hope that Salah is willing to wait for trophies like his predecessors didn't? Hope next season we can go one better? These chances notoriously don't come along often and I'd rather have the safety net of a cup run and possibly breaking the 10 year duck of winning nothing, than going into another season where we crash out the domestic cups because they've suddenly become meaningless to a club who can't buy a trophy.

    So no, I'm not "full of pessimism", I love our progress and I hope we maintain our League form and push City all the way, but I'm not going to turn into an Arsenal bellend, feeling all happy and shit at the selfies at the end of the season and guaranteed CL qualification. We've done that for the last couple of seasons, now Klopp needs to actually win something.

    So for all of your optimism, I'd rather be realistic and remember that we've been here before, we've had the wind taken out of our sails by a couple of bad results or a few lengthy injuries. It's all it takes, but there's absolutely zero excuse for repeatedly surrendering up the League Cup and FA Cup as "meaningless". I get that overseas fans value the league and CL more, we all do, but we also value domestic success as the foundations for breeding a winning mentality. Where the fuck did this, "ahh it means fuck all anyway" attitude come from? Our past greats would be turning in their graves at that myopic & arrogant mentality.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2019 at 15:04
  7. Woland

    Woland Part of the Furniture Member

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    Gini, Milner, Shaq midfield. Fab next to VVD.

    0-3
     
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  8. Brizzle

    Brizzle Well-Known Member

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    Trying to keep you guessing.
     
  9. Brizzle

    Brizzle Well-Known Member

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    If we don't have another CB then this one is good for me.
     
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  10. tomasjj

    tomasjj Very Active Member

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    Shaq was shit yesterday and should start on the bench.
     
  11. Woland

    Woland Part of the Furniture Member

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    Shaq was shit at Stoke because he was surrounded by shit. Stick Salah, Frim and Mane in front of him and he's a fucking beast.
     
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  12. bluebell

    bluebell Active Member

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    Woland is right, he picked up his game as soon as Salah & Fab came on.
     
  13. tomasjj

    tomasjj Very Active Member

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    Yeah, could well be that. Many simple mistakes though.
    One of those who struggles with the team.
     
  14. gkmacca

    gkmacca Part of the Furniture Member

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    Lovren's tweaked his hamstring, I don't know why people are thinking he might be able to play by the weekend. Last year in this fixture Wini played CB, and I'm still not sure how that worked as well as it did. As you say, Fabinho can fill-in. I think Milner needs resting, if we can afford to do so - he's looked very jaded in the past few games.
     
  15. gkmacca

    gkmacca Part of the Furniture Member

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    Not as such, but he hasn't played again yet. Maybe another week or so. Conor Masterson is playing and is doing well - there's not that much to choose between the two in terms of experience and ability, so if a young player was needed then Masterson would not be any greater gamble in this particular match, IMHO.



    A bit of info:

    Liverpool boss Jurgen Klopp twice included an Irish defender on the bench last season and with injury worries increasing, the 20-year-old is again being tipped for a senior debut. But just who is Conor Masterson?

    Here's a quick guide:
    1. Masterson is a Dubliner

    He was born on September 9th 1998 and he grew up playing for his local west-Dublin club Lucan United.
    2. He's a ball-playing centre-half

    That's according to the Liverpool Echo, who reckon he is a 'good size' and said: “He’s got an excellent pass on him and is perfectly capable of sending a good diagonal ball to the wings from the edge of his box. He can also step out well with the ball at his feet.”
    3. He was a reportedly big-money signing

    Masterson, at the age of just 13, signed for Liverpool in 2012 on what was then reported to be a €1 million deal. The likes of Manchester United and Chelsea were both said to be interested when he shone at the Kennedy Cup - the most famous trophy in Irish Schoollboy football. He actually joined up with the Anfield club on his 16th birthday.

    Masterson met Kenny Dalglish and then boss Brendan Rodgers before he signed for Liverpool. He later told the Liverpool club website: "When I first visited the club, everyone was so friendly and welcoming towards me. I have really settled in at the Academy and I have made lots of new friends here. It's a great club and that's the reason I chose to come here."
    4. The FAI know all about his talents

    Conor was named as the FAI's International Player of the Year in 2015 and received his award from then Liverpool manager Brendan Rodgers.

    He has played 10 games for Ireland U17s and also played 10 times for the Under 19s during their 2016/17 season.
    5. On the bench

    Masterson has had experience of joining up with Liverpool's first team - he was named in the Champions League squad this season and was handed a spot on the bench for the midweek win over Manchester City. He was also an unused substitute in the Merseyside derby at Goodison Park in April.

    It wasn't his first taste of first-team involvement, having joined Klopp's squad for a mid-season training trip to Spain in February 2017 and been named as an unused substitute against Exeter in the FA Cup.



    And here's a clip - this is from nearly two years ago, he's bigger and stronger and better now, but it gives you a basic sense of how he plays:

     
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  16. Hansern

    Hansern Part of the Furniture Member

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    I dont think it was Klopps plan at all to rotate that heavy, and he said yesterday that Lovren was scheduled to start on the bench.
    VVD has been at home since the City game, Henderson was ill and Lallana picked up a minor knock.
    If you add that to already having 2 injured CB's then its not at all strange that we set up the way we did last night.
    The front three have played a lot and this was the one game were you could give them a bit of a breather.

    As for not caring about the FA cup. Firstly it lost its magic some years ago but we can all agree that its still a trophy and shouldnt be overlooked in that matter.
    But this season we find ourselves in a unique position in the league and might not do that again in the near future, so I think its essential that we plan for the next 5 months with that in mind.
    Once it was known that we got a shite away draw, needed to rotate and saw last night that it was an injury plagued side with fringe and youth players it was quite clear that if we win - great, if we lose - well meh. We have bigger fish to fry.
    Its got nothing to do with a winning culture or that we as fans are forgetting whats important, its just an attitude to where we are this season in terms of chances of winning the league.

    If we dont win away to Brighton, it might have all been for nothing. But I think we have set us up for the best possible way to get a good result now on Saturday.
     
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  17. Frogfish

    Frogfish Gone to Redcafe Member

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    I couldn't agree more. But this is a different argument to the FAC game per se. and absolutely not one I disagree with. I can't for the life of me think as to why we let Clyne go. It should have been a clear No, not until the end of the season. I also can't fathom Clyne's timing ... he could have ended up with a PL Winners medal, I think he's 1 game shy of it as it stands and if it happens.

    Agree on Moreno. But we didn't have any problem playing Coutinho, Can etc. for having digs and Moreno's was only a small one. Fact is if we were going to rotate for this game then there was no-one else was there.
    Same goes for the other players, clearly Klopp wanted to rest as many of his 'first team' as possible and that meant not risking them. He even said he wanted to keep Degsi out too but his hand was forced. If we go through the squad then everyone that didn't play is either injured or part of his 'first team'. Maybe Lallana could have started.

    I don't see he had much option, after having made the decision to rest his strongest team, but to go to youth, even though playing three of them was OTT.

    All of the above falls into the same argument. How do you manage the squad/team if you are going to prioritise the PL (Rodgers blew our last chance with poor in-game decisions (going for GD against Palace and going for the win against Chelsea when a draw was sufficient) ? We have been unfortunate with injuries, 4 CBs down (inc. Philips) is clearly abnormal. Clearly Klopp has priotised the PL and CL to the detriment of the FAC and LC but that's his right to do that, I imagine FSG agree with him. The fact that a sector of the fanbase disagree is based on sentiment but isn't a cold hard decision. The comments of Chelsea's Women's team manager after the match rang true "damned if he did and damned if he didn't".

    How would the people who 'value' the FAC have reacted if Klopp had played a strong side and Salah or Becker or VvD had come off with a serious injury ? Which could have the knock-on effect of truly derailing our season ?

    I've never been in the 'Klopp needs to win something' camp. That's far too simplistic (at least at the beginning of the season it was). Who are the favourites for the PL ? The CL ? The FAC ? The LC ? It wasn't us. Who has spent the most money in the PL ? In Europe ? Again not us. And considering the state of the squad when he arrived we've seen a great turnover and improvement. We seem to be set to challenge for the next few seasons at least. So if you are not favourites, not even in the top 4 as far as the CL is concerned, why MUST he win something ? That's something rival fans and pundits say, I don't believe it's something FSG will demand even though we now can compete at that level.

    I love that we are in control of the PL title race. We may not make it to the line however if we continue to play as we have done in the first half of the season then we will, and to do that we need the players that have taken us to this position to be fit and firing. Anything that Klopp does to protect them is fine by me because at least he will have tried to get us across that line, if he hadn't protected the team where ever possible then I'm not sure I'd have any sympathy with him not bringing home #19.
     
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  18. gkmacca

    gkmacca Part of the Furniture Member

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    Eh? That sentence is a bit contradictory.
     
  19. JohnnyRocket

    JohnnyRocket Very Active Member

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    One of the more interesting formations I've seen on here
     
  20. Frogfish

    Frogfish Gone to Redcafe Member

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    Absolutely bang on. It was all about giving us the best chance possible to win at Brighton - whether we do or not.
     
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