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I'm disappointed you picked someone over me
Virgiling on the vandijkulous
- Thread starter Skullflower
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I'm disappointed you picked someone over me
I have quite a few posters on 'dismiss everything they say and laugh at them because they're wrong about fucking everything'
So, the reason anyone would pick us, is because we're not as good, so easier to make the team. And we pay a lot of wages, just not as much as others.
Of course it's obvious that if most players where offered a choice of joining Liverpool, Chelsea, City or United, then the vast majority would not choose Liverpool, for a variety of reasons that include some or all of the following: wages, likelihood of success, ambition of club, recent success, etc etc.
But there will be the odd exception who might - as seems to be the case with VDV, for example - buy into Klopp's vision and force of personality.
And yeah, sometimes the likelihood of actually getting into the team and playing more often - being more of the "main man" - is also a factor, but most top players are very, very confident that they will play, regardless of what team they join.
That's the other way to look at it, but my response was too "As if any player would choose us", when it's clearly obvious that a player could be tempted to join us for the reasons I outlined.
The Soton link and example can be used about Lovren, but Fonte moved to West Ham in January and has found himself playing in a 3 man CB set up, 5-4-1. Not sure you can use those 16 matches in that set up in this example.
Didnt people use Fonte as the reason why Lovren had looked good for Soton when we bought him?
Van Dijk is a different type of player then Lovren regardless, and he's been very good for Holland and was brilliant for Celtic.
Just get the fee at a level we can accept (wont happen mind), and this will be a brilliant transfer for us.
Didnt people use Fonte as the reason why Lovren had looked good for Soton when we bought him?
Van Dijk is a different type of player then Lovren regardless, and he's been very good for Holland and was brilliant for Celtic.
Just get the fee at a level we can accept (wont happen mind), and this will be a brilliant transfer for us.
That's what So'ton will want us to think, but it absolutely does not have to be that way. If negotiations restart, we have at least as many cards to play as they do.
Lovren was really good for Lyon & Soton, and has always been a stalwart for Croatia.
Putting out that weird training video with Sakho smiling away on an exercise bike was a pretty decent card, it goes some way to hiding our own increasing desperation for a defender if it looks like he's happy to stay and we're happy to keep him. Of course that card will look very different in a few months when it turns out to be our actual hand that we play going into the season.
He wasn't good at Lyon. He was often rounded on by fans for being a bit of a donkey.
he's always been a donkey -
He struggled to break into Lyon - was behind Boumsong and Bodmer despite his big reputation.
Also constantly clashed with Puel and Garde (mostly because of stupid red cards)
Definitely a donkey but he was highly rated (we were after him at Lyon too) -
That being said, I think the Soton defensive set up is what made him look so good there.
Southampton's CB pairing of Lovren and Fonte were both highly sought after but if anyone had checked Southampton's defensive record before they signed Wanyama and after they sold Wanyama they would notice that Saints conceded about 10 goals more per season the season before Wanyama's arrival and after he left..
Two things this highlights are; the importance in having a better defensive midfielder than Lucas and; Van Dijk's form for Saints has been very good despite the fact Wanyama left as he arrived (I don't think Oriel Romeu is as good as Wanyama as a DM'er.)
Our defensive issues go way beyond the CB's. Lack of protection from the midfield combined with a keeper who despite a dramatic turnaround in form is always capable of a hospital pass to the defence who should be reliant upon him, & fails to command his area at all times.
Both of those have a lot of influence on the CB's for obvious reasons.
Both of those have a lot of influence on the CB's for obvious reasons.
This is the worry. Southampton have regularly played with a DM - both Wanyama and Romeu are excellent as preventing and destroying opposition attack, which helped all Southampton CB's look probably better than they are. Lovren has been good, but not great for us. He was supposed to be the 'leader' to sort out our defensive mess, at least that's what I read on here at the time. And two years later we're in the market for another CB from Southampton only this time the price is trebled.
Klopp has admitted his system leaves his CB's exposed but we're buying from a club where the CB's have ample protection. I'm not saying he wouldn't be brilliant for us, maybe he will, but there's a few doubts around that I wish weren't there.
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Irrespective of comparsions to Wanyama, hasn't Romeu been highly praised for his performances last season?
Probably they always play with a defensive midfielder, too. And it was even better when Wanyama also joined him.
Yea I posted that by mistake.
I did say that Spurs have Wanyama as well in my amended post so it could well be the case that the extra protection afforded to the centre halves at both Spurs and Southampton flatter them somewhat.
I think our system of play will continue to expose all our defenders and probably the best way of compensate for that is by having individually brilliant players across the back line.
Whether Van Dijyk is brilliant in a different system only time will tell but I suspect he would be better than Lovren in our team for a start
The way I see it, in Klopp's system we defend by attacking the ball early and rushing the opponent, it's only when the opposition gets some sustained possession we seem to fall into a tighter formation. The front four presses the ball as soon as we lose it, when the attack gets past them, the midfield two then push up and attack the ball, past them Henderson then charges to intercept the ball, finally past Henderson and one of the central defenders comes out to take on the ball, leaving us with a single centre back covering. This approach works in some regards, it fails in others, and ultimately it'll always leave us conceding soft goals that a team like Southampton or Spurs wouldn't because we're playing a risky game, it's a conscious gamble by Klopp. The upside is more often than not we stifle the attack before it's even begun and regain momentum, this helps us not only defend, but it helps us keep on pressure and control the game, which provides a platform for our attack to excel, the downside is this very easily leads to our defenders being massively exposed at the back due to missed interceptions and players over committing, which is why we concede such soft goals, in such unfathomable and amateurish ways.
This is why I've always been a bit indifferent to the defensive midfielder debate, simply we don't play with a proper defensive midfielder, we play with an aggressive holding midfielder who will always attack the ball; a player who sits in front of the defence and tightens things up doesn't fit into Klopp's formation, in my opinion. Henderson is the master of this position, he's athletic, and a good enough reader of the game to read the play and intercept the passes, he's also good enough technically to then push on and drive forward with the ball via a pass or a run, vital for the position. To back that up further, I think it's why Can was mentioning how difficult he was finding the CM position under Klopp physically as he's required to do a lot more sprints, this was treated as a given as we press much more in a Klopp system, but I think it was directly related to the need to attack every ball coming through to him in the Henderson role, as opposed to holding his position as he's been more accustomed to in the holding midfielder role in the past. It's also why I think Lucas got pulled back into defence, he's decent at attacking the ball, but he's not that great with the ball, so he can't fulfill the pushing forward part of the Henderson role, however from the centre back position, there is less focus on that, he just needs to know how to attack the ball and defend decently.
How does any of this relate to Van Djik? Well in our defensive two, their will always been one who sits, and one who pushes, we've seen Sakho be the attacker of the ball last season to variable success, as well as Lucas, we've seen Klavan and Lovren do it more this season with Matip being more of a sitting defender. Personally I think VVD will come in and do this aggressive role, the little I've seen of him he seems very good at attacking the ball, and he's also very good at bringing the ball forward. He's very much a ball playing centre back, this will suit Klopp's system perfectly, and personally I think it'll add another layer to our attacking play. Both he and Matip are good at bringing the ball forward when they have possession, but I can also see VVD being good at it after winning the ball back off the opposition via an interception ans then pushing into the space behind the attacker and driving forward in an almost counter attacking style, adding another point where we can turn defence into attack as Klopp so loves to do.
The problem with this is that we'll always concede goals, it's simply the way we play, but that's also why i'm not too fussed about Van Djik being away from his protective cover at Southampton. He's going to get exposed playing for us, and he's going to make mistakes that leave us exposed, defenders in our system will always have that problem, but his ability to attack the ball early, and his ability to bring the ball forward gives me great faith that he'll be a massive upgrade on our defence, and ultimately help us concede less goals; simply he's a huge upgrade on Lovren in both of those areas. Now I'm sure someone much more intelligent than me will come along and completely destroy my reasoning in this post, but this is how I see it, and why I'm quite excited to have VVD at the club, if we pull our finger out and make it happen.
This is why I've always been a bit indifferent to the defensive midfielder debate, simply we don't play with a proper defensive midfielder, we play with an aggressive holding midfielder who will always attack the ball; a player who sits in front of the defence and tightens things up doesn't fit into Klopp's formation, in my opinion. Henderson is the master of this position, he's athletic, and a good enough reader of the game to read the play and intercept the passes, he's also good enough technically to then push on and drive forward with the ball via a pass or a run, vital for the position. To back that up further, I think it's why Can was mentioning how difficult he was finding the CM position under Klopp physically as he's required to do a lot more sprints, this was treated as a given as we press much more in a Klopp system, but I think it was directly related to the need to attack every ball coming through to him in the Henderson role, as opposed to holding his position as he's been more accustomed to in the holding midfielder role in the past. It's also why I think Lucas got pulled back into defence, he's decent at attacking the ball, but he's not that great with the ball, so he can't fulfill the pushing forward part of the Henderson role, however from the centre back position, there is less focus on that, he just needs to know how to attack the ball and defend decently.
How does any of this relate to Van Djik? Well in our defensive two, their will always been one who sits, and one who pushes, we've seen Sakho be the attacker of the ball last season to variable success, as well as Lucas, we've seen Klavan and Lovren do it more this season with Matip being more of a sitting defender. Personally I think VVD will come in and do this aggressive role, the little I've seen of him he seems very good at attacking the ball, and he's also very good at bringing the ball forward. He's very much a ball playing centre back, this will suit Klopp's system perfectly, and personally I think it'll add another layer to our attacking play. Both he and Matip are good at bringing the ball forward when they have possession, but I can also see VVD being good at it after winning the ball back off the opposition via an interception ans then pushing into the space behind the attacker and driving forward in an almost counter attacking style, adding another point where we can turn defence into attack as Klopp so loves to do.
The problem with this is that we'll always concede goals, it's simply the way we play, but that's also why i'm not too fussed about Van Djik being away from his protective cover at Southampton. He's going to get exposed playing for us, and he's going to make mistakes that leave us exposed, defenders in our system will always have that problem, but his ability to attack the ball early, and his ability to bring the ball forward gives me great faith that he'll be a massive upgrade on our defence, and ultimately help us concede less goals; simply he's a huge upgrade on Lovren in both of those areas. Now I'm sure someone much more intelligent than me will come along and completely destroy my reasoning in this post, but this is how I see it, and why I'm quite excited to have VVD at the club, if we pull our finger out and make it happen.
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Did you watch City last season? He'll stroll into their team.
I don't hate us I just realistic. There is zero chance a player would pick us over City unless they grew up a massive red or were local.
You aren't being realistic, you're being hysterical. To say there is zero chance that a player would pick us over City is just hyperbolic nonsense.
Not to mention they had a beast in front of them protecting them,
Name one that has?
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