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Our presumed line up and weaknesses.

Discussion in 'The Football Forum' started by Modo, Aug 7, 2017.

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  1. Modo

    Modo A contentious scando Member

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    I know that this has been partly mentioned in other threads, so sorry for the repeat.

    Let's start by presuming that Coutinho stays.

    Forget the keeper, forget the back line.

    Can and Henderson will probably pair up in the middle with Coutinho infront of them.
    Mane and Salah will be our wingforwards.
    Firmino upfront.
    The diamond shaped attack will probably attack as a unit. One of our full backs will always be in support, depending on the focus of the attack.

    That leaves Can and Henderson as our primary support in midfield for our defence. Can as we all know will probably go on his marauding forward runs, Hendo will drop deep. I'm not the only one who's been harping on and on about a DM but surely we look a bit weak in defence.
    Attack being the best form of defence is all good and well but we've seen how susceptible we are to counter attacks. I mean it's entertaining to beat Norwich by 4 goals to 3 but it's almost tactically irresponsible. Other games like the ones against Bournemouth and Burnley also showed this.
    A new CB in Van Dijk isn't gonna solve this problem. A specialist DM doesn't fit in Klopps system apparently. So is everyone happy with the options we have in those midfield roles?
    Outside Henderson and Can, who do we have that can play in those roles? Wijnaldum isn't that type of player. Neither is Grujic. Milner? Possibly but he's not really been tested in midfield.
    I dunno, just seems like a defensive minded midfielder or a midfielder that can defend or whatever, is the way to go and I'm not even talking about replacing Can or Henderson, I'm talking about a back up.
    Oh, and Can hasn't signed a new contract.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2017
  2. Mors

    Mors Well-Known Member

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    Although some Australia based wronguns disagree, I presume the preferred starting 11 when everyone is fit is going to be:

    .............Mignolet
    Clyne..Lovren..Matip..Moreno(?!)
    ........Henderson..Can
    ..............Coutinho
    Mane......Firmino........Salah

    I've only put Moreno in there as Klopp has been raving about him, and he's said Milner goes back into midfield.

    It looks pretty much the same as last season for me - we're going to be brilliant going forwards, that team is not going to struggle for goals. But the defence have no cover in Can/Henderson, and the keeper wont have any faith in his defence because of that. So we'll continue to leak goals. I think we're marginally improved because Coutinho can help to unlock tricky defences from his new position, but teams are going to continue to have 1 shot 1 goal against us.
     
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  3. Fabio

    Fabio Former mod, consistent c*** Honorary Member

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    Midfield is piss weak. In fitness and in ability.

    I honestly wouldn't mind similar players to can and hendo in those positions just an upgrade on ability. Naby keita was an upgrade on can I feel, as he did the marauding runs from deep, as well as defend well.

    Henderson we need because his range of passing is just too good. Wijnaldum I think is his understudy, and I think he can play a defensive role well, as he is excellent in possession, but maybe not as dynamic/aggressive in defence as hendo

    I think our system relies heavily on cutting the channels through pressure which is why (I know you'll disagree) Lallana is a HUGE loss. His dynamism and constant running cuts a lot of early pressures out. Coutinho, whilst he can do it, I don't know if he's as good as Lallana (only on that 1 thing before anyone leaps on me)

    Kuyt was the perfect defensive winger, I think Lallana is the perfect defensive AM

    We COULD cope, but we're relying on players maintaining fitness for the whole season, and any understudies to be just as good

    It's ridiculous to go in to the season relying on that though
     
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  4. Modo

    Modo A contentious scando Member

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    Exactly, we are unbelievably top heavy. I have no worries at all about our attack but the squad we currently have is not even close to good enough to compete in four competitions.
    I get that signing Ox will give us proper options for Mane and Salah, then there's Lallana, Wijnaldum, Milner and Grujic.
    But not having any defensively capable midfield replacements is careless. Yeah we tried with Keita, but FFS try harder and get Can under contract or sell and buy two CM's pronto.
     
  5. davud graham

    davud graham Dude Member

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    I'd prefer to play with a specialist defensive midfielder but Klopp doesn't seem too keen and wants the 3 players in midfield to be creative and support the defence which is fine if the players are mobile and defensively disciplined which I'm not too sure any of our midfielders are.
    Can defends well when the ball is in front of him but is very slow on the turn and Coutinho closes down the spaces but you rarely see him tracking opposition players back around our own box. Wijnaldum is similar to Can in the way he defends in that he's slow and not very mobile.
    Henderson is probably the best defensively but not outstanding. Milner again is susceptible to pace and Grujic tends to dive in a bit.
    Too many times opposition players make runs past our midfield and don't get picked up which put the defence under too much pressure.
    I think our main plan for defending is the high press which can be very effective and also gets us plenty of goals but the problem with that is if the opposition gets past the high press then we are nearly always outnumbered and that's why teams play counter attack against us.
     
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  6. Modo

    Modo A contentious scando Member

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    Totally agree, despite not being Hendersons biggest fan, he is our best DM option. Can isnt bad but you've highlighted his weaknesses pretty well.
    Problem is both of them lack the defensive instinct of a proper DM. Yeah they can track back, win the occasional ball but their positioning is at times almost abysmal.
    Lucas who is slow as fuck was miles better than both in anticipating and stopping players. Yes he got shit for those stupid fouls, but if he had the pace and agility as Henderson and Can he would have been so much better.
    Basically, we haven't replaced Lucas.
     
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  7. Fabio

    Fabio Former mod, consistent c*** Honorary Member

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    We never replaced mascherano, and then wonder why we've been shite defensively since then
     
  8. Modo

    Modo A contentious scando Member

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    That too. Well except the one season Lucas was wonderman then got his knee fucked.
     
  9. davud graham

    davud graham Dude Member

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    I didn't have a problem with Lucas going as long as we brought in a player that was better than him which so far we haven't done.
    Going by what Klopp has said it looks like Milner will be back in midfield this season but it was unclear whether he'll play in Lallana's position or the defensive midfield position that Lucas had. I don't think he's got the stamina and guile to play lallana's position or the defensive positioning that Lucas had, also he's just as slow as Lucas and gives just as many fouls away due to that lack of pace.
     
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  10. mom

    mom Very Active Member

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    Depressing. Particularly after the all the bluster surrounding possibly the biggest spend in our history etc etc blah blah blah
    Yeh, the window ain't shut yet, but if we just hang on for our two big targets and leave it late, this could easily be what we have for the season until January. And we all know how hard it is to buy targets in January...
     
  11. Kay Age El

    Kay Age El Well-Known Member

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    Wijnaldum is one of the first names on the team sheet, and rightly so.

    Guess we could look something like this come next weekend:

    .........................Mingolet..........................
    Clyne.........Matip.........Lovren......Moreno
    ................Gini...............Hendo................
    Mane.................Coutinho...............Salah
    ........................Firmino.............................

    That's a good team although there are some BIG q's over Lovren and in particular Moreno but I guess Robertson is ready to step in if there's not great improvement from the off from the lightning quick Spaniard.

    For me it's not the starting line-up that's out main issue, it's the squad depth in particular for the defensive positions (CB/DM/LB/GK) as well as the striker position. Sturridge could be the answer and there have been early positive signs from Solanke. But Gomez, Robertson, Klavan, Karius/Ming, Grujic et all seems a bit on the week side. Can and Lallana could well be starting for us on another day, but it's inevitable that we'll have some injury problems at all stages. Our squad depths and the quality of it is an issue.

    Biggest concern right now is probably the CB position for me. VVD or anyone else in that bracket would be a massive step in the right direction. A part of me thinks we are 'ok' I midfield as long as we don't get too many injuries. I could even be extremely blinkered and convince myself that Sturridge is back to his best, and then I wouldn't even be too concerned about goals either. But the CB position looks very, very weak as of right now..
     
  12. Dirty Sanchez

    Dirty Sanchez I Moustache You a Question Member

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    I think that Milner is going to play the DM role this season. No data, just a hunch. He played primarily as a "defender" (yes I know a fullback has an entirely different role to a DM) but he's versatile, has a good engine, seems relatively durable, doesn't get bullied, has decent footballing intelligence, etc. He could step into that role and make it his as he plays out the remainder of his career.
     
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  13. Modo

    Modo A contentious scando Member

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    Totally unrelated...
    *cough*
    Fast forward to about 1.12
    *cough*



    Sorry I seem to have a terrible cough at the moment.
     
  14. Dirty Sanchez

    Dirty Sanchez I Moustache You a Question Member

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    You also have a terrible choice in videos.
    Genuinely have no fucking clue what this is showing me.
    (Other than Lucas). Oh.
     
  15. Woland

    Woland Part of the Furniture Member

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    Lucas morphing into Alonso
     
  16. Modo

    Modo A contentious scando Member

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    @RedNinja do you have a fix for the streamable.com links on tapatalk?
    Or is it on them?
     
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  17. rurikbird

    rurikbird Very Well-Known Honorary Member

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    I think every team nowadays is "top-heavy" by your definition. The football has changed since the days of Rafa and Mourinho 0:0 battles. By modern definition Henderson, Wijnaldum and Can are very much capable to be considered DMs.
     
  18. Dreambeliever

    Dreambeliever Looking on the brightside Member

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    You mean Hamann
     
  19. LarryHagman

    LarryHagman Well-Known Member

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    Bit deflating them teams based on what we identified April/May as areas to strengthen. Yeah we'll score goals but we'll ship 50 again.
     
  20. Halmeister

    Halmeister Some sort of pun about having a well known member Member

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    Glossing over this thread and basically only reading the title, we haven't addressed any of our weaknesses. Moreno is still here, Milner is still probably going to start as left back, we haven't bought a CB, we haven't improved the midfield, and we've only really strengthened attacking midfield - which we were already well-stocked in. So yeah, same weaknesses as before.
     
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