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Lallana

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doctor_mac

doctor_mac

My cowboy name is Garland Justice
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I've gotta say, Lallana really surprised me against Spurs. He is always industrious in every game, but often without enough effect, and with his lack of physicality leaving team mates exposed (like the 1st goal v Arsenal). On Saturday he actually won a number of tackles including a 50/50, which I have never seen before. He broke the Premier League record for distance covered!! And this showed, he was always there in support of attacks, and should have had an assist for Mane's goal, wrongly chalked off. Can he operate successfully in the midfield 3 long term? Should he bulk out, or would this negatively impact on his ability to cover so much of the pitch?

I must say, I have never been Lallana's greatest fan as part of an attacking 3 or 4: he doesn't score enough, and we all know he sometimes dallies on the ball to little effect. Playing in a midfield 3 makes me less concerned about the end product, but makes me concerned about physicality. What do you guys think?
 
doctor_mac said:
I've gotta say, Lallana really surprised me against Spurs. He is always industrious in every game, but often without enough effect, and with his lack of physicality leaving team mates exposed (like the 1st goal v Arsenal). On Saturday he actually won a number of tackles including a 50/50, which I have never seen before. He broke the Premier League record for distance covered!! And this showed, he was always there in support of attacks, and should have had an assist for Mane's goal, wrongly chalked off. Can he operate successfully in the midfield 3 long term? Should he bulk out, or would this negatively impact on his ability to cover so much of the pitch?

I must say, I have never been Lallana's greatest fan as part of an attacking 3 or 4: he doesn't score enough, and we all know he sometimes dallies on the ball to little effect. Playing in a midfield 3 makes me less concerned about the end product, but makes me concerned about physicality. What do you guys think?
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I think you are right to highlight his predilection for "dallying", as his fannying about and lack of stature did, as you said, cost us a goal against Arsenal. You can't have someone fucking about in our own half. At least when he loses it in their half they have further to go and there's more players behind him.

As for your actual question. I don't have a fucking clue. He's too slow and isn't anywhere near effective enough in terms of goals or assists to play in the front three, and as everyone expected his place has gone to Mane. That might not be permanent, depending on the team selections and where Coutinho plays, but right now his only option is that more withdrawn midfield role. It's something we talked about even before Mane joined: could Lallana (or Coutinho) play in the midfield three?

Hmm. Yeah his industry and willingness to put in the yards is always a bonus, but I dread to think what would happen if he comes up against a Pogba, Matic, Kante or similar. He did pretty well against Spurs, but Wanyama was off the pace, and if Dembele had played, I fear he would have chewed Lallana up.

It all depends on who is in there with him, to an extent. Chelsea have been lining up with a midfield three of Kante, Matic and Oscar, which is quite interesting and shows you can have a more lightweight, creative presence in midfield. But we don't have a Kante, or even a Matic. Wijnaldum is nobodies idea of an enforcer, and a midfield with him and Lallana in it will not win any physical battles.

So, I'm erring towards no. In fact, seeing Lallana in midfield, Milner at LB, Firmino as the main striker and Sturridge on the bench, makes me wonder just what the fuck we've been doing this summer.
 
manwithnoname said:
I think you are right to highlight his predilection for "dallying", as his fannying about and lack of stature did, as you said, cost us a goal against Arsenal. You can't have someone fucking about in our own half. At least when he loses it in their half they have further to go and there's more players behind him.

As for your actual question. I don't have a fucking clue. He's too slow and isn't anywhere near effective enough in terms of goals or assists to play in the front three, and as everyone expected his place has gone to Mane. That might not be permanent, depending on the team selections and where Coutinho plays, but right now his only option is that more withdrawn midfield role. It's something we talked about even before Mane joined: could Lallana (or Coutinho) play in the midfield three?

Hmm. Yeah his industry and willingness to put in the yards is always a bonus, but I dread to think what would happen if he comes up against a Pogba, Matic, Kante or similar. He did pretty well against Spurs, but Wanyama was off the pace, and if Dembele had played, I fear he would have chewed Lallana up.

It all depends on who is in there with him, to an extent. Chelsea have been lining up with a midfield three of Kante, Matic and Oscar, which is quite interesting and shows you can have a more lightweight, creative presence in midfield. But we don't have a Kante, or even a Matic. Wijnaldum is nobodies idea of an enforcer, and a midfield with him and Lallana in it will not win any physical battles.

So, I'm erring towards no. In fact, seeing Lallana in midfield, Milner at LB, Firmino as the main striker and Sturridge on the bench, makes me wonder just what the fuck we've been doing this summer.
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It does seem strange, but the only real difference is Mane. He has taken Lallana's position which has allowed Klopp to shuffle the midfield around. We saw Firmino play as a striker enough times last year to know Klopp likes him there; you've got to wonder if this was the plan all along.

The key to it will be who makes way when Emre Can is match fit - you could make a case for any of the current midfield three.
 
He should ask Kenny to give him a session on learning how to turn players with your back to them in tight situations. He can't develop the arse that Kenny had, but he can certainly learn a bit of technique and canniness for such situations. And I don't think working on improving his upper body strength should affect his mobility. But he's a player whose game relies greatly on others around him being sharp and decisive in their movement. He certainly looks for the early ball, but too often his targets are slow to anticipate and he has to check. That's not to say he doesn't also have a tendency to hold on to the ball too long in other situations; he plainly does. But he's probably, along with Coutinho and Mane, one of our smartest and most imaginative players, so he deserves all the encouragement he gets,
 
I think he's sound, just wish he was a bit harder to push around. Didn't think he had his best game on Saturday but those legging it round stats will give Klopp a boner, so he'll keep his place.
 
His fitness levels have gone through the roof. In his first season you could pretty much time your watch by when he'd get subbed looking absolutely shattered. It was usually the 70th minute. Now he's like some crazed banshee bombing all over the place for the full 90 minutes. So he can certainly work and improve on some aspects of his game. As Brendan says, at present he's quite like Murphy in terms of effectiveness, but much poorer in terms of finishing (not wildly surprising seeing as Murphy was a forward with a good instinct for finishing before being converted into a midfielder), but Lallana has all the skill and guile to play a role more akin to Beardsley, if ever he can realise his full potential in terms of attacking and getting into the box. That should at least be his aim.
 
Should we really be talking about Lallana still trying to reach his full potential when he's 28 years old. He's pretty average for me and none of the top four or five teams in this league would touch him with a bargepole.
 
He's good to have as a squad player and I think he'd be more effective if the movement ahead of him was better, but he's not going to win you a game very often.
 
gkmacca said:
His fitness levels have gone through the roof. In his first season you could pretty much time your watch by when he'd get subbed looking absolutely shattered. It was usually the 70th minute. Now he's like some crazed banshee bombing all over the place for the full 90 minutes. So he can certainly work and improve on some aspects of his game. As Brendan says, at present he's quite like Murphy in terms of effectiveness, but much poorer in terms of finishing (not wildly surprising seeing as Murphy was a forward with a good instinct for finishing before being converted into a midfielder), but Lallana has all the skill and guile to play a role more akin to Beardsley, if ever he can realise his full potential in terms of attacking and getting into the box. That should at least be his aim.
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Oh, Macca. Such vaulting ambition. Peter Beardsley!?

There are - and I've noted them myself - some playing similarities, but God Almighty, Lallana has never, and will never, get anywhere near that level of quality, effectiveness or match-winning capability, plus Beardsley was always far more of an obvious striker than Lallana.

Now you've made me wallow in an historical fugue about Beardo.
 
manwithnoname said:
Oh, Macca. Such vaulting ambition. Peter Beardsley!?

There are - and I've noted them myself - some playing similarities, but God Almighty, Lallana has never, and will never, get anywhere near that level of quality, effectiveness or match-winning capability.

Now you've made me wallow in an historical fugue about Beardo.
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Ha ha, well I did say 'a role akin' to Beardo's. I didn't mean he'd be anywhere near as good as Beardo. It's a bit like saying if Hart got his act together he could play a role akin to a great City keeper. ;)
 
He *was* excellent against Spurs though. I wonder if he's been doing some core strength work because he did hold people off on occasion, and, I don't want to go on about it, but he won some tackles.
 
I think hes a really valuable player.
Hes always involved, keeps the ball very well, passes well and works his balls off for the team when we dont have the ball.
His end product needs work but I think it will come. I reckon if he plays all season he will get goals.
He scored against Arsenal and but for a borderline offside had a great assist vs Spurs.
So maybe this will be his year.
 
Im not sure if its the advent of the internet or the merciless need to validate and numerate and analyse every measurable for every player these days.
But im unsure how all midfielders became 'Do they score goals or not'

I know thats over simplification, but in 15 years Ronnie Whelan broke 10 league goals once, Craig Johnston never, Houghton once etc

I like what he brings to the table.
 
I'm not expecting any imminent improvement from Lallana. By the time players are 28 we've got a thorough understanding of what that player is and I don't see him suddenly learning how to shoot or deliver an important pass on a consistent basis.

We've signed someone more effective in his position in Mane and now he's one the many players this season trying to play in a new position.

For me he's a bit too lightweight and doesn't release the ball fast enough to be further back down the pitch.
 
In the same way he isn't good enough for the front 3 he isn't good enough for the midfield 3.

Just because he runs a lot doesn't mean it is effective running, the relevant stat is how many goals and assists he has and we all know it is few.

He should never be more than a squad player.
 
Herr Onceared said:
Im not sure if its the advent of the internet or the merciless need to validate and numerate and analyse every measurable for every player these days.
But im unsure how all midfielders became 'Do they score goals or not'
Click to expand...

We know the purpose it serves, so some blert can quote every measurable at the end of his Liverpool career and claim some personal victory.

He's a good player, he's been a good player for us and has been pretty instrumental to Klopp instilling his system.
 
mark1975 said:
We know the purpose it serves, so some blert can quote every measurable at the end of his Liverpool career and claim some personal victory.

He's a good player, he's been a good player for us and has been pretty instrumental to Klopp instilling his system.
Click to expand...
Hes the kind of player FANS of clubs used to love right? Works like fuck, never backs down, tries all day, decent on the ball.

I dont know how we lost that.
Its interesting seeing the love Dirk gets in the other thread (yes I know striker/midfielder etc) given they have very similar attributes.

Anyhoo.
 
I wasn't in favour of buying him as at the time I thought there were better options and 25M was an exorbitant amount of money but he's here now and proven to be a good option to have in the squad.

I look at all the money we've wasted in recent years, I mean really wasted, and he just doesn't really figure as a concern. He's actually a good player (or 'decent' if you're feeling less charitable).

Yes, ideally he'd be a squad player (and he may yet end up being one when everyone is fit), but it's not his fault that in four transfer windows after his arrival we are where we are.
 
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