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If Coutinho stays...

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rurikbird

Part of the Furniture
Honorary Member
... he should play in the same position as he did in the Boro game, maybe not always, but most of the time. The #8 role, the Iniesta role rather than Neymar role, if you know what I mean. When he's in form, he looks like our only player since Gerrard and Suarez whose every move, pass and touch is filled with purpose; it's like he first decides what needs to happen and then finds a way to make it happen regardless of the opponent's actions. If he wants to create a space to shoot, he's going to create a space to shoot. If he decided to get the ball to Milner on the left, he'll bloody find a way to get the ball through to Milner, no matter how many players are in between. That's what is called class.



So if we're not selling him, the only other option is to build around him. Stick him in his ideal position – not quite a winger, not quite a CM – and then move other players around. To be fair, Klopp did pretty much exactly this in the first part of the season, when everyone was fit and firing, but once we lost Mane and then Coutinho lost form after his injury (and Milner lost some attacking thrust due to fatigue, which also was a factor in making Coutinho less effective as the season progressed), this momentum was blunted until pretty much the last couple games. The fact that at the end of the season, under some pressure, Klopp changed the formation and found the way for the team to "click" in attack and score 3-4 goals per game again even without Mane fills me with optimism for next season.
 
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I said both last season and this that his best position is as a deep laying #10/8, not as a faux winger/wide left. Rodgers had played him there too and it's his ability to disrupt opposition formations and create havoc by slaloming through midfields, and his creativity, that unlocks defences. Against 90% of team's in the PL that's the way he should be played as they find it difficult to combat (especially with Mane on the right).

Against better teams which come out to play a more open game then a conventional #10 is better suited.
 
In a 4-3-3 he'd play as a number 10 i.e. the furthest advanced central midfielder. But that raises the issue of Lallana, because you can't play Coutinho AND Lallana in a 3 man midfield, it would lack muscle.

The diamond system worked well for the last 2 games. Interesting that Klopp played Lallana behind the front two rather than Coutinho, but it worked a treat. But as we know, as diamond has no wingers, so where would it leave Mane? Could he play as one of the front 2?
 
If we get another top class winger this summer and a striker that can play up top on his own, maybe we will also see Klopp play a 4-2-3-1 in certain games as well.
 
He said he wants to become legend with us rather than 'another player at Barca or Bayern'. I'm starting to think he will stay. I think he feels he owes us a lot for his career and wants success with us above all else. That could be tested if we fail to progress but I reckon we're good for now.
 
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It's hard to trust anything a player says in an interview these days but that's a pretty unnecessary thing to say if he is thinking at all about leaving. Hopefully he does stay!

And yeah, I think midfield is the better option too in a lot of games. That'd also have the benefit of freeing up the left-wing for another pacey option.
 
I dunno why but ive never thought he was ever going to leave this summer. I guess because he new wages doesn't kick in until July i just felt he wouldn't have done that unless he was looking to stay.

Definitely think against teams that sit back he should play a deeper role. But against the top teams further forward.
 
Well, out of the 6, who's a shoo-in?
Coutinho, Mane, Lallana, Firmino?
So who plays where and who are the other 2?
 
...............A proper DM
........Lallana.......Coutinho
Mane.......Striker.........Firmino

Would that work? Looks like we might get rolled over in the middle.

Maybe

........Proper DM....Can
...............Coutinho
Mane......Striker......Firmino

That's shit on Lallana/Wijnaldum/Sicknote Hendo, but you've gotta play your best team I guess.
I don't like Firmino out wide, but Klopp loves him, and I think we need a proper striker, so I guess he'd have to go out wide to accommodate that.
 
I Can see him leaving next year after the World Cup. His much better suited to playing in the Midfield player maker role could work better with some pace on the left wing wing. A dougla costa/ dembele to stretch a defence. Where it call fall apart is when your play someone like frim there who is always going to cut inside.
 
Something more like the below might work:

----------------Can/DM-----------
------Gini/Hendo----Coutinho
Mane-------Firmino-----Lallana/AM

And then we are rotating who we hope to be a pacey attacking threat rotated with Adam.. Has the makings of a great squad when we start getting multi players with class across these positions.
 
Something more like the below might work:

----------------Can/DM-----------
------Gini/Hendo----Coutinho
Mane-------Firmino-----Lallana/AM

And then we are rotating who we hope to be a pacey attacking threat rotated with Adam.. Has the makings of a great squad when we start getting multi players with class across these positions.

Yeah, I'm thinking along these lines too. A holding midfielder like Can who mostly stays in front of the back four, thus helping to protect against counter-attacks, a more dynamic, physical midfielder further forward and a "pure" playmaker alongside him (Coutinho or Lallana, maybe Keita can be in this category too). That would be a damn good midfield, but then we will need pace, energy and goal threat in the front 3 to round it off.
 
I don't want Lallana out wide. He's been phenomenal deeper
 
I suppose a midfield of Lallana and Coutinho in front of a proper DM could actually work - at home. I'd worry in physical away games.

Sticking Lallana out on the wing is counterproductive. What about something like this.

Proper DM
Henderson Coutinho
Lallana
Mane Firmino


Mane freed up in a front 2 could be unreal

We'd need a good striker to rotate with the front 2, and Coutinho and Henderson's position can easily be filled by Can or Wijnaldum if needed.
 
...............A proper DM
........Lallana.......Coutinho
Mane.......Striker.........Firmino

Would that work? Looks like we might get rolled over in the middle.

Maybe

........Proper DM....Can
...............Coutinho
Mane......Striker......Firmino

That's shit on Lallana/Wijnaldum/Sicknote Hendo, but you've gotta play your best team I guess.
I don't like Firmino out wide, but Klopp loves him, and I think we need a proper striker, so I guess he'd have to go out wide to accommodate that.

Firmino out wide... no, just... no... Gawd... NO!

Play him in the middle - if he doesn't score enough for your taste, play him behind a main striker or in a striker partnership. But not out wide, please, no! Just because he drifts out wide from a central position doesn't mean he should start out wide - his least productive games for us are often when he's had to start there in Mane's or Coutinho's absence.
 
The boss loves firmino though, so he'll shoehorned in whatever, that could mean out wide, unless he doesn't bother with a striker this summer, which I think is suicide personally
 
Firmino out wide... no, just... no... Gawd... NO!

Play him in the middle - if he doesn't score enough for your taste, play him behind a main striker or in a striker partnership. But not out wide, please, no! Just because he drifts out wide from a central position doesn't mean he should start out wide - his least productive games for us are often when he's had to start there in Mane's or Coutinho's absence.

I think @JohnnyRocket's formation was the "diamond", so it's not "out wide" – he's proposing to play Firmino and Mane as the 2 strikers (like him and Sturridge played in the last 2 games).

The problem with this is that "the diamond" seems to be an inherently flawed formation, proven by the fact that as far as I know no team has won a major title in recent years playing that way. I know we almost did in 2013-14, but "almost" doesn't count. Klopp said before that he can get away with playing the "diamond" sometimes, but he evidently doesn't trust it to be the team's default tactical system.
 
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The boss loves firmino though, so he'll shoehorned in whatever, that could mean out wide, unless he doesn't bother with a striker this summer, which I think is suicide personally

Moving Firmino out wide makes him less effective, but that can be compensated for and then some of it's an absolutely top striker up front we get. It's silly to make him less effective by putting him out wide to have someone of Origi's standard up front on his place.
Either a boss striker or a left wing version of Mane to chip in with more goals and much more potency down the left and keeping Firmino where he is.

Either is fine by me.
 
I think @JohnnyRocket's formation was the "diamond", so it's not "out wide" – he's proposing to play Firmino and Mane as the 2 strikers (like him and Sturridge played in the last 2 games).

The problem with this is that "the diamond" seems to be an inherently flawed formation, proven by the fact that as far as I know no team has won a major title in recent years playing that way. I know we almost did in 2013-14, but "almost" doesn't count. Klopp said before that he can get away with playing the "diamond" sometimes, but he evidently doesn't trust it to be the team's default tactical system.

Do Madrid play a diamond formation getting width from Marcelo and Danilo?
 
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