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Bottom 14.

Discussion in 'The Football Forum' started by Oncy, Feb 12, 2018.

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  1. Oncy

    Oncy Administrator Administrator

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    Has there ever been a worse premier league table than this years.

    There are so many bang average non descript teams playing in the league, the gulf between top 6 and the rest is massive.
    Arsenal are doing their best to bridge it of course but in reality, 7th place is almost a point a game team with negative goal difference.

    Brighton, Stoke, Watford, Huddersfield, Burnley, Bournemouth, Palace, Swansea, West Brom.......what a shit bunch of names that evoke next to fuck all in the way of history, rivalry, fear, theatre etc.

    I know some will win here or there and play some nice football, but has there ever been a more damning indictment of the money gulf in our league.

    It's as close as it's ever been to a lock in.
    6 teams vying for top 4
    Literally every other team is relegation fodder. Even the usual mid tier Everton, Stoke, West Ham, Leicester, Southampton etc are all in the same shitty boat.

    Think we've broke the league guys.
     
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  2. gkmacca

    gkmacca Part of the Furniture Member

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    I said elsewhere I'd rather they cut the league in two, and only have one promotion so that one of the lower teams, who currently park the bus every time they play one of the top clubs, would have to find another way to survive. You know, like trying to play a bit of football every week. At the moment these teams rely on getting enough points against each other, and then priding themselves on their genius tactics of playing two lines of five against the best teams whilst boring the fans to death. So long as they stay where the big money is they don't care. It's no longer football, it's outdoor accountancy.
     
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  3. doctor_mac

    doctor_mac My cowboy name is Garland Justice Member

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    Another way of looking at it is that is really competitive. As Newcastle proved yesterday and Swansea proved against us, these teams are all very capable and there are lots of great players across these teams.  Watford for instance have Richarlson and Dacoure; Leicester have some really excellent players in Vardy and Mahrez with others. Burnley are a brutally tough team to beat. West Brom gave us a doing at Anfield in the cup.  I think the league remains by far the toughest in Europe in terms of competitive teams.
     
  4. Fabio

    Fabio Former mod, consistent c*** Honorary Member

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    I counter that by adding one line to that

    "When they can be arsed"

    I've no doubt a majority of the sides could take points consistently off the big boys, but more often than not they're let down by owners wanting managers to be safety first, and try and avoid the drop.

    Look at Bournemouth

    We turned them over, yet playing the same way they battered Chelsea.

    If lower sides stuck to their guns and tried to play football then they can get consistent points.

    It's all very Wenger this argument though. They don't play football how we deem they should so they should be cast off and we shouldn't be forced to play against such Philistines.

    Nah mate.
     
  5. FoxForceFive

    FoxForceFive Administrator Administrator

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    Yep, it's all about the money.

    That's why there's such a big gap as well.

    That 'big 6' is all the clubs who have money, so they have better income & better squads.

    It's not something that's going to improve any time soon, it's a similar situation all over Europe.

    Ideal world the entire financial aspect of the game needs addressing, Europe wide, at the same time.

    Two thirds of winnings & entry payments being paid into the rest of the league, strict & restrictive percentages of income available for salaries, strict tier payments for salaries based upon age, a restriction on the number of players & something like the US draft system for young players that ensures the top clubs don't always get the best prospects (which equally benefits the league & players as they actually play regularly).

    None of which will actually happen, of course.
     
  6. doctor_mac

    doctor_mac My cowboy name is Garland Justice Member

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    But all the teams have quite a lot of money now.  The likes of Stoke and Burnley are paying tens of millions regularly for players. Everton spend over 100m in the Summer! As I said, there are some fantastic players spread throughout the league.
     
  7. doctor_mac

    doctor_mac My cowboy name is Garland Justice Member

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    Are you arguing with yourself Fabs?
     
  8. gkmacca

    gkmacca Part of the Furniture Member

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    Not really. I think it's gone too far in this league. There's such a divide in class that it's now become the norm to play anti-football in half the matches, and try to actually be moderately progressive in the others. Of course teams can and will play how best they think they can to survive, but the league now allows them to do that so often it's made the Premier League one of the dullest to watch unless it's the top teams against each other or the worst against each other. Half the games we play now are just depressing to watch, and there's no great failure about struggling against teams who just defend. It IS a huge a struggle to deal with that situation, and there's no reliable tactical solution. So it's like watching endless boxing fights where one fighter just dodges contact with his defence high up and hopes for either a split decision or a late knockout. It's not stupid and it's not unfair, it's just dire as a spectator sport. And this game has become so lucrative because it sells itself as an entertainment.
     
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  9. Woland

    Woland Part of the Furniture Member

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    And then you get your axis of Hughes and Hodgson, saying before the league has even begun, we're in a scrap for survival.

    Sacking offence. Every manager in August should be saying we're going to try to win as many games as possible and try to bring home some trophies. Otherwise what's the point? What about the fans? It's nonsense.
     
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  10. hmmmmm1

    hmmmmm1 Very Active Member

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    A Competitive league is a good thing.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2018
  11. Markeh

    Markeh Very Well-Known Member

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    It seems to me like we're also missing the feel good / underdog success story this year, the media tried to make it Burnley for a bit but they're just too boring and not actually that good. Where's the Burley Ipswich, Rodgers Swansea, Leicester this year?

    The only interesting thing is that it might be 3 established teams going down
     
  12. Fabio

    Fabio Former mod, consistent c*** Honorary Member

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    Unintentional phrasing sadly
     
  13. manwithnoname

    manwithnoname Bravo old man. Bravo. Member

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    The league last year was the same. Top 6 and then a massive fucking gap to everyone else.

    United came 6th and were 8 points clear of The Bitters in 7th. The gap between Everton and Southampton in 8th was a flabbergasting FIFTEEN points.
     
  14. gkmacca

    gkmacca Part of the Furniture Member

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    And a self-serving myth has arisen among a certain coterie of coaches - Pulis, Allardyce, Hughes etc - that their teams HAVE to play that negatively against the top clubs. But look at Curbishley's West Brom, basically the same West Brom that under Pulis would have gone to Anfield for a long, long evening of negativity, against us in the cup. In terms of percentages, was that approach significantly LESS likely to get the odd win or draw against us than the standard park the bus routine? I doubt it. I know nothing will change, I know the teams can and will play as they wish, but when the question is about whether much football these days is bearable or not, I'd say I've never, ever, known the game to be so painful to watch.
     
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  15. Fabio

    Fabio Former mod, consistent c*** Honorary Member

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    As a spectator sport the premier league is shite. That's no doubt. But when do we draw the line? Are we there to be entertained or support the team.

    Ideally both, but at some levels thats not possible.

    I think the increase in the revenue has cancelled out the charm of the parachute payments. Teams used to be able to play good football and still be relegated, knowing that they'll still pocket a tidy amount.

    Nowadays the need to survive at top flight and revenues from that outweighs the other
     
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  16. Fabio

    Fabio Former mod, consistent c*** Honorary Member

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    Agree with that

    No manager should be downplaying expectations, because that transfers to fans and players
     
  17. Woland

    Woland Part of the Furniture Member

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    It's a bit before my time but when a win was only two points and there was no backpass rule I remember the old guys moaning about how boring Liverpool had got. Like going one nil up at home and then reverting to the keeper, while being quite happy to draw away, as you only dropped one point instead of two. That not the case? And I remember thinking about taking a book to read when Houllier was in charge.

    Either way, I hate the footy many teams play at Anfield, but I understand how they set up against us, knowing our weaknesses etc.
     
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  18. Woland

    Woland Part of the Furniture Member

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    ...and we got to the 05 CL final by basically Pulising our way past Juve and Chelsea.

    It was only six crazy minutes that we didn't play that way really.
     
  19. Atlas

    Atlas Well-Known Member

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    Is the 'big six' more of a 'big 2/3' with the other 3/4 vying for position also?


    City/united/chelsea have spent nearly £200 million more than us over the past 5 years. not even incl the whole net spend stuff. link
     
  20. manwithnoname

    manwithnoname Bravo old man. Bravo. Member

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    I made this point a while ago, it's City, Spurs and Chelsea. And the rest.

    But then look what's happening to Chelsea this season. Maybe "6" is a better description after all.
     
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